Blockchain Patent War Coming

Maybe I’m missing something here.

  1. are not recognized by governments as currencies.
  2. are generally only exchanged for national currencies on exchanges.
  3. wallets and other applications are free.
  4. are mostly operated and controlled by their user communities.

So, who are the parasites going to sue?
What are they going to sue for?
How are they going to force compliance?

I think this may be a big, scary non-issue.

Hi @tknowny, the reason this is not a trivial issue is because collusion between corrupt governments and a vicious worldwide banking lobby can realistically result in a major propaganda campaign designed to demonize and destroy cryptos in general and Cardano in particular. (Whether they succeed or not is a different question.) Such a campaign could easily be launched based on the following global PR attack:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Cardano and its anarchist ilk are wantonly violating patent laws and destroying our global banking system based on misguided notions of how economics and banking systems work. These dangerous and self-absorbed hooligans are not above the law and they must be held accountable for their reckless behavior, which is putting the wealth and integrity of our entire global economy in jeopardy. We, the banking community, are committed to working with government officials in Washington and other global banking centers to bring these anarcho-communists to justice. . . .

Supreme Courts Will Support the Status Quo. Then, based on that worldwide propaganda campaign, they would file their lawsuits. Technically speaking, they would probably win in many cases because most open source projects do infringe on numerous patents. But even if they didn’t win at first, they could potentially take their lawsuits all the way to the Supreme Court. For many reasons, many (probably nearly all) Supreme Court judges are out of touch with the reality of cryptos and the reality of our decrepit fiat-poisoned global economy. Thus, their perceptions and loyalties will almost certainly be sympathetic to the status quo, which means their verdicts will be highly biased toward preserving the status quo.

“If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.” – Thomas Jefferson Given that the banking industry has already amassed a large war chest of blockchain patents (and continues to file many more patents each year), it’s virtually inevitable that Cardano and many other blockchain projects will infringe on one or more of their patents. Thus, “the letter of the law” will be on their side (even though the laws are unjust and distorted by special interest groups). That means, supreme courts in every major country will feel compelled both legally and ideologically to render verdicts that favor the banking lobby and fiat-drunk governments.

We Should Not Underestimate the Threat. Once those Supreme Court verdicts are delivered, that will give governments and their law enforcement apparatus the legal justification to engage in harsh government crackdowns against the crypto community. When (not if) that happens, we must be prepared. We should not delude ourselves into believing things like, “Oh, everything will be fine. . . . don’t over-exaggerate the threats. . . .” because we’re talking about an existential threat to the most powerful special interest group on Earth: The banking lobby.

Physical Violence is a Real Possibility. As we all should understand by now, they are preparing for war. It is not yet a war with guns and tanks, but it will likely escalate to a level of physical violence because that’s simply the inevitable result when corporate interests hijack the policing power of governments to serve/preserve their own interests. (Anybody who doesn’t understand/believe this should read the classic historical book, Business as a System of Power.)

Revolutions Unfold Slowly Until They Reach a Tipping Point. I’m not saying any of this to scare people unnecessarily. I think Cardano is no less revolutionary than the 1776 American Revolution, but we are in the early days of that revolution, just like the U.S. Founding Fathers were during the 1760s. The early American colonists who could foresee the coming conflicts with their oppressors were the ones whose names we know today: Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton, Franklin, Madison, Adams. . . .

“Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish. . . .” –Thomas Jefferson Most people on Earth today do not see what we see. They’re focused on their daily lives, trying to make ends meet, hoping for the best and not really understanding why our world is falling apart. As a community, I believe it’s our duty to follow Sun Tzu’s wisdom and “know thy enemy” without falling prey to normalcy bias and other forms of fantasy thinking. The banking lobby is real and they are ruthless. They will not relinquish their power and ill-gotten wealth quietly or passively. They will fight; and they will fight viciously. Let’s be prepared.


I agree with everything you say in this reply @ADALove, and I don’t mean to trivialize the issue. It’s just that, if the war to come is inevitable, why worry about the patent issue. If they want to find a way to demonize the crypto community, they will certainly do so. It seems our time would be better spent getting the public educated and involved in crypto rather than trying to defend against every dirty trick the bankers can pull on us.

Anoop M Kurup, Founder,


One of the criteria to get a patent is that the invention should not be available publicly. That is the invention should not be available in any form, written, as a video, or as a product.

Existence of a product also means that someone else has invented it. So trying to apply for a patent on someone else’s invention means you are trying to credit for someone else’s work. It is illegal.



Yes, but part of the education process is helping people understand what’s coming. The reason the U.S. political system is so broken today is because the majority of Americans are overwhelmed with so much corporate and government propaganda that it’s nearly impossible for them to distinguish between truth and fiction anymore.

So, when we go to mom, dad, neighbor, friend, and everybody in our communities and say, “Hey everybody, join us in the promised land–Cardano Land!” how will they know that the banking lobby propaganda is just propaganda? How will they know who to believe if we don’t educate and prepare them for what’s coming? It won’t be obvious to them for many reasons.

The “banking and political experts” will say that Cardano is reckless and dangerous–so who do you think the average person will believe? Every word of propaganda that the banking lobby spreads will create fear, uncertainty, doubt, and resistance to Cardano, which is what propaganda is designed to do. Every good PR firm and attorney will tell you to never let a false accusation fester in the public arena. To succeed, WE must become a massive PR Machine for Cardano and never allow negative propaganda to fester without confronting and neutralizing it with the truth.

What I’m sharing here is rooted in the same fundamental principles that enabled Edward Snowden to succeed in getting global public opinion on his side. He understood that the only way to overcome the extremely powerful propaganda machines was to preemptively take the message to the people and (with Glen Greenwald’s help) relentlessly confront and debunk the propaganda from governments and interest groups that wanted to destroy him.

Building the Cardano Platform and waging a successful defense against the propaganda machines are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are both essential to our community’s long-term success. “Build it and they will come” does not work. We will need to win hearts and minds first; and to do that, we will need to win the propaganda war.


You have amazing writing skills.

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Do we need to win the propaganda war or do we need to win the adoption/network effect war i.e. the DApp layer/ecosystem has to be legit. We need big companies like MSFT which blessed ETH and which is blessing NEO to start building stuff on top of it.

I don’t think banks will have any legitimacy as long as all the catastrophe’s that are coming down the road are pointed squarely at them today.

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@citizenkosmos Do not underestimate the power of evils. If it needs, they will kill x thousands or vanish the earth to keep their power.:slight_smile:

No, he does not have, but he has a genius mind which was expressed in those sentences.:slight_smile:

Could you be more explicit?

Concretely what would the banks buying these patents imply?

I agree absolutely with the nature of the banking institutions, so unashamedly manifest in hypocritical statements of Jamie Dimon against Bitcoin; while at the same time Morgan Chase is embracing the legacy of Satoshi Nakamoto!

True buying some specific implementations thereof would mean they are barred from access for us and I dare say the majority of the inhabitants of our planet and even if they purchased the copyrights of permissioned new DLT technologies; such as Hash Graph it is still debatable if they will have the triumph card.

True banks are ruthless; but the free market even more ruthless. It does not care a shit about the big banks either. They have legitimate fears but so far they still hold the aces. People of the world will opt for what is cheaper and so far the open source DLT has not achieved that kind of competitive edge and this will the playing field that will finally be decisive and we all know that open sourced DLT has a much better potential here.


Governments and big banks are relatively always a step behind the latest developments within the academic institutional domains; corporate research and most of all; from the developments taking place in the most fertile domain of them all; the open source. The latter is almost beyond any one institutions grasp and understanding. And the situation is worse within the established media; often what they honestly and naively depict as news is already history!

That way open source has indeed an edge and it is inevitably leading the race! And corporations that are future oriented like Google; know where their allegiance lies. It was after all Taviso from Google; who once managed to avoid a potential big disaster; perhaps many times more perilous than what cryptocurrency has known till today. It was a bug in cloudflare software; that was used amongst others by almost all crypto-exchanges with cloudflare servers! This just goes to show that open source is resting no less on the shoulders of giants; including Oracle and IBM and more and more are climbing on the band wagon; including the once epitomes of propriety software; companies like MS and Apple!

That Linux today resides in super-computers and at CERN; besides being ubiquitous in servers, medicine and scientific research only goes to show its power in a highly competitive market. The open source developers are in fact at times the fountainheads of disruptive changes. They are like Mathematicians; less inhabited by the constraints of the corporate policy that can stifle innovation; hinder the personal development of their most talented members.

Yes Banks can buy them off. Let them try to buy off the Haskell Inventor first; who has joined the open source community.

I am certainly not worried.

Jamie Dimon has the same divine rights like the King Lious XVI at the time of French Revolution!

Hey remember how Nvidia reacted to the Fuck Off from Linus Torvalds?

In fact I will like to remind you all: Future is what you make of it!

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You state your case eloquently, and your literacy is remarkable, @ADALove.

I agree that we need to get ahead of the propaganda war, and it’s funny that you mention Snowden and Greenwald. I had been thinking that we need to get people like Edward Snowden, Glenn Greenwald, Sarah Harrison, Jeremy Scahill, and Laura Poitras in our camp as soon as possible. I think it would be beneficial to get popular authors and bloggers in our corner as well.

I understand that it is Emurgo’s responsibility to market Cardano, but I’m not aware of any initiatives, or plans for initiatives, in the US at this time.

Would you be willing to compose a letter stating our needs and your vision, to solicit the involvement of the anti-propaganda champions?


Well put and real possibilities. Patents and their abuse seems to be only one arrow in the quiver of the ‘masters’.

In a different discussion The blockchain as a tool I put (hope it’s OK that I quote myself :slightly_smiling_face:):

Would the attack not be broad and directed at all Blockchains? Is there a reason why Cardano would be singled out in particular?

It would seem that platforms that potentially allow for an expansion of productivity of private and public sector, and that are partially adopted by them (or in process of being adopted) and that allow some level of regulation would stand stronger than cryptocurrencies that aim to be anonymous, and that can potentially give people alternative systems to the ones prescribed by the ‘masters’.

The approach tknowny mentions of trying to get key players on board of the coming propaganda war seems to be a very good idea. But I think it would be better if this would be a cross-Blockchain initiative so that a larger mass is achieved from the onset. It could start from Cardano, but it should grow from there I would think.
A good timing of these people coming out would be important though, too early may speed up an attack. Couldn’t find my copy of San Tzu :wink:, but getting the strategy right will be important.

Am I wrong in my assumptions?


Haskel makes the language less exploitable, not because it’s safer but because it’s less known.

It’s like making every modern person speak Coptic… there is a real effect to get started, like how a club on a car may ward off thieft - why not Safe just causes more work

0.02 of an ADA

P.s. correct me if I am wrong

Do we need to win the propaganda war or do we need to win the adoption/network effect war i.e. the DApp layer/ecosystem has to be legit. We need big companies like MSFT which blessed ETH and which is blessing NEO to start building stuff on top of it.

They are not mutually exclusive. Getting larger companies on the Cardano train AND winning the propaganda war are both essential.

I don’t think banks will have any legitimacy as long as all the catastrophe’s that are coming down the road are pointed squarely at them today.

The banks have not had any legitimacy from a sound economic policy perspective since the early 1980s when they started:

(1) trading for their own account;
(2) selling (and facilitating the sale of) junk bonds to support corporate raiders that stopped caring about the American labor force; and
(3) supporting the evisceration of our manufacturing sector by shifting their capital to get-rich-quick schemes in paper wealth markets (stocks, bonds, derivatives, swaps, etc.), while systematically making less capital available to manufacturing companies that build real products.

And yet, the fact that the banks have been illegitimate since the 1980s has not stopped them and the government from continuing to destroy our currency and economy. So, assuming their illegitimacy will make them easy to defeat is an unvalidated assumption, which ignores the past 35 years of bank illegitimacy. Let’s not underestimate them because they can and will keep operating illegitimately with impunity for as long as we, the people, remain trapped in the fiat banking system.



Concretely what would the banks buying these patents imply?

The same adversarial intention as any patent squatter, but in this case, we’re not merely talking about disrupting the sales of Blackberry phones. Soon we’re going to be asking humanity to start trusting a cryptocurrency to denominate in ADA the transactions of the entire global economy, people’s precious retirement accounts, and all their material wealth. That’s a scary prospect for many people already; so banks won’t have to work very hard to make many people even more afraid. That’s another reason why I say we can’t underestimate their ability to strike FUD into people.

Most of humanity doesn’t know it yet, but ADA will eventually preserve the value of their wealth far better than debased fiat currencies, but the banks will lie and deceive, saying that WE ARE lying and deceiving. As a community, we must aggressively counter their lies.


Thank you, @tknowny.

Would you be willing to compose a letter stating our needs and your vision, to solicit the involvement of the anti-propaganda champions?

I’m actually already working on a major project that addresses your points here. As soon as I’m ready, I will invite our entire community to join this project. The result will amplify our collective voice and it will be fun and interesting for all involved. Stay tuned. . . .


Yes, for the same reason that Dan Larimer singles out Cardano and attacks Charles. Those who fear obsolescence the most will fabricate reasons to attack us the most. This is also true for the banks and other blockchain projects whose interests are not truly aligned with the public interest.

The team is already doing this by building interoperability into Cardano, but keep in mind that our community spirit is pretty rare. Some projects give lip-service to the idea of cross-blockchain interoperability, but most of their business models are antagonistic to that ideal; so we can’t expect many other projects to be happy when they realize that their business models have become obsolete because everybody is flocking to Cardano Land.

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This is the concept of “security through obscurity,” which is technically a very weak form of security because persistent hackers will always find away to penetrate the obscurity. The benefits of Haskell go way beyond that.

Functional programming languages like Haskell force programmers to code differently than they do with procedural languages (e.g., C++, C#, Java, etc.). Haskell’s error/exception reporting is also pretty amazing, which can identify most exceptions before they’re pushed out into a live production environment, which dramatically increases the reliability and confidence in projects. And most projects coded in Haskell consume about 70-80% less time and resources because you can accomplish the same functionality with 70-80% less code, in addition to far less troubleshooting and bug-killing.

I really like Haskell because the code feels so much more elegant and it’s much easier to manage/update/refactor code than with any other language I’ve worked with before. (I do projects on the side for fun and to keep my mind sharp, not as part of my profession.)

There’s an interesting video by one of Facebook’s engineering teams, which explains why they chose Haskell for one of their most challenging projects, which was fundamentally impossible to code in any procedural language.

Would really like to hear more of that project ADALove, and if I can support it in any way, would love that.

Please do keep us posted :slightly_smiling_face:.

As you may know. Cardano is built in the spirit of collaboration and efficiency. This is why it is completely open-source and patent-free.

To go further on to the concerns of exposure, the type of work that we do at Cardano, with our academic partners would be difficult to replicate. This is because the work that goes into this project is difficult to do quickly and efficiently, furthermore, the collection of people who can do this work is small.

Generally with peer-reviewed project, it is also a lengthy process, in years and decades. So companies or other cryptocurrencies are welcome to compete but if they are often not optimized to compete. Therefore, it will be quite difficult for them to enjoy the timelines the Cardano project has been able to accomplish.

Finally, it has been noted by Charles and our team that it is also less about technology in general and what’s been created, but more about the community, and the relationships we have with the community and in the industry, which we have taken the time to create. Hopefully that answers your question :slight_smile: