# Category Scoping, Catalyst Community Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Project Catalyst\ **Created:** [6 September 2023 15:01 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718 "2023-09-06T15:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [21 September 2023 21:17 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/21 "2023-09-21T21:17:07Z")
Here is the [recording](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pz4W0wtW-r-djB61Od5u_GT1t9rlO2vS/view?usp=sharing) for the 2nd workshop, from the 19th. Miro board (pass: catalyst) - [link here](https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOQvpE34=/?share_link_id=336275248131) In the Town Hall Wednesday we were told that a 3rd workshop will be scheduled. I’ll share anything here as I discover it. ---
**Author:** ![QuasarChains](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/quasarchains/32/41917_2.png) [@QuasarChains](https://forum.cardano.org/u/QuasarChains)\ **Post date:** [22 September 2023 15:38 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/22 "2023-09-22T15:38:16Z")
Drop shipping community thought from VivaLaCoin from twitter > ---
**Author:** ![HeptaSean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/heptasean/32/82306_2.png) [@HeptaSean](https://forum.cardano.org/u/HeptaSean)\ **Post date:** [24 September 2023 20:02 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/23 "2023-09-24T20:02:18Z")
Is it too late to just propose not doing any categories at all and let everything compete in one big competition? ---
**Author:** ![QuasarChains](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/quasarchains/32/41917_2.png) [@QuasarChains](https://forum.cardano.org/u/QuasarChains)\ **Post date:** [24 September 2023 20:49 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/24 "2023-09-24T20:49:05Z")
Not at all and I support you in submitting that as a proposal. Let me know once you submitted it and I will help with exposure. ---
**Author:** ![HeptaSean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/heptasean/32/82306_2.png) [@HeptaSean](https://forum.cardano.org/u/HeptaSean)\ **Post date:** [24 September 2023 20:52 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/25 "2023-09-24T20:52:44Z")
Where to submit? Read through the whole thread. There are only workshops linked, but no submission system. ---
**Author:** ![QuasarChains](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/quasarchains/32/41917_2.png) [@QuasarChains](https://forum.cardano.org/u/QuasarChains)\ **Post date:** [24 September 2023 20:54 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/26 "2023-09-24T20:54:55Z")
That is my question as well. Where to submit it? How to submit it? What support is needed etc. Do you add it to that MIRO? These are items we need to figure out and agree upon. ---
**Author:** ![QuasarChains](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/quasarchains/32/41917_2.png) [@QuasarChains](https://forum.cardano.org/u/QuasarChains)\ **Post date:** [24 September 2023 20:58 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/27 "2023-09-24T20:58:09Z")
> **[Cardano-Project-Catalyst-Community/Category-Scoping-Workshops](https://github.com/Cardano-Project-Catalyst-Community/Category-Scoping-Workshops)** > > ow to take the approach forward, intended to be led by community collaboration to define and refine scope and priorities. Priorities defined in TH119 - Cardano-Project-Catalyst-Community/Category-S... There is something we could do here and also create a example of your proposal and how it would apply to the parameters ---
**Author:** ![QuasarChains](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/quasarchains/32/41917_2.png) [@QuasarChains](https://forum.cardano.org/u/QuasarChains)\ **Post date:** [24 September 2023 20:59 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/28 "2023-09-24T20:59:49Z")
> **[GitHub - Cardano-Project-Catalyst-Community/catalyst\_parameters\_research:...](https://github.com/Cardano-Project-Catalyst-Community/catalyst_parameters_research)** > > Compiled data and other goodies related to Cardano Project Catalyst - GitHub - Cardano-Project-Catalyst-Community/catalyst\_parameters\_research: Compiled data and other goodies related to Cardano Pr... The fund 9 parameters are in here. F10 needs to be added and while doing so a template created for us to pass around ---
**Author:** ![kiriakos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/kiriakos/32/20987_2.png) [@kiriakos](https://forum.cardano.org/u/kiriakos)\ **Post date:** [26 September 2023 10:52 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/29 "2023-09-26T10:52:15Z")
I am disappointed that this is the quality of contribution the IOG team envisions… As an external, unpaid, participant the effort to add your input if just way too high. Even if you do go though everything, there is no evidence to suggest that your input will receive serious attention or consideration. I have offered my support in this matter to the IO team time and time again but it becomes evident that improving in this regard does not fall under their priorities… ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [26 September 2023 19:29 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/30 "2023-09-26T19:29:18Z")
Just sharing the Fund 10 parameters to go with the above links > **[Fund10 parameters](https://docs.projectcatalyst.io/catalyst-basics/fund10/fund10-parameters)** And the Fund 11 parameters someone else started: > **[Fund 11 Parameters](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rxXU8nA117DKQuD-qQM8Fo3q0rUPY17zCHnlQM8vLWg/edit)** > > Fund 11 Parameters Fund 11 Operating parameters are the actual operating parameters that make up the Catalyst voting protocol put in place to enable the community to decide which proposal will receive funding from the Cardano Treasury. Table 1 This... ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [26 September 2023 19:35 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/31 "2023-09-26T19:35:31Z")
I do see a lot of room for improvement and growth so we agree on a number of things. But dont give up. Cardano has so much potential. And who knows, maybe this time we get enough of the right forces in the community together and make changes more like what those of us here would like to see. Tomorrows town hall may be largely about Swarm and their departure/onboarding their chosen replacements. Hopefully there’s a slide about cat scoping though. Here’s the [registration](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall) for the town hall. ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [27 September 2023 17:45 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/32 "2023-09-27T17:45:20Z")
New information shared in the Town Hall today! October 4 @ 5PM UTC [link](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall) for the 3rd Category Scoping Workshop That URL looks familiar for a reason. No more traditional Town Halls until closer to Fund 11 however break out rooms can still be used until then. The next couple weeks Daniel said could be used for Category Scoping Workshops. ---
**Author:** ![QuasarChains](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/quasarchains/32/41917_2.png) [@QuasarChains](https://forum.cardano.org/u/QuasarChains)\ **Post date:** [30 September 2023 16:50 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/33 "2023-09-30T16:50:12Z")
There’s a pop-up twitter space today for those interested in the scoping workshops and discussion. [https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1ynJOyLQDyrKR?s=20](https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1ynJOyLQDyrKR?s=20) ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [7 October 2023 13:07 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/34 "2023-10-07T13:07:04Z")
I apologize for the delayed update on Wednesdays Category Scoping workshop but here it goes. I was not present for the entire event, I dipped out to pickup kids from school and then rejoined. I’ll update this when the recording is released by Daniel if I missed something. The first half hour was discussion loosely based on Catalyst, not necessarily category scoping. Almost all attendees were new to the workshops, 43 attendees in total. Next we looked at the four categories prepared for us: Cardano Use Cases (product development), Cardano Open (non-technical), Cardano Open (technical), and Catalyst System Improvements. Lots of diverse responses here, to include… Whether categories need subcategories with their own budgets? Alt category suggestions for Cardano Open (non-tech) of engagement/onboarding and community building. Cardano Open (technical) suggestions like ensuring its not just developer only as open source includes things like documentation, translation, etc or to include a per proposal budget cap. Whether all proposals should require both tech and non-tech components? Sticky reading that tech people dont understand there are other skills that they, tech people, dont possess. Whether all proposals should require elements like marketing, engagement, testing, listening to users, and show the ability to do that to be considered for funds? There was also discussion about bringing in those contributors who shaped funding rounds past so they could tell us what we should do now. I’ll admit, it was hard to keep everyone on track and there were a lot of sidebar type discussions, including in the chat which Daniel wasnt able to keep up with. As such, Daniel indicated he wanted help for the next workshop. I was volunteered and that’s fine I’ll help with this. The next meeting will also be in the Town Hall slot/space, Daniel will start it and then I’ll help facilitate the meeting so he may be an active participant. I’m working on an agenda with objectives. I am actively seeking anyone who wants to help me shape the next meeting and have announced that already on Discord but no responses there yet. Reply here or Discord please. I am also on Telegram, Twitter, Slack etc. Join us Wednesday, 5PM UTC for the 4th Category Scoping workshop Register here: [https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall) -Christina Gianelloni ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [9 October 2023 20:05 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/35 "2023-10-09T20:05:42Z")
@dannyribar provided objectives for each of the previous Category Scoping workshops on the miro board. He also included what the eventual outcome expectations are so I’m including those here so we’re all on the same page and working towards the same objectives or modifying them together. They are as follows: 1. Final format of top level categories 2. Names 3. Specifications ie big cats/small cats 4. Final format of any sub levels (if applicable) 5. Specifications 6. Parametrization of these categories 7. guardrails/entry requirements/qualifications 8. ADA allocation / budget weighting mechanism 9. Fund 11 categories parameters et (initial set) 10.Tooling supports the change ie Ideascale Direct from [miro board](https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOQvpE34=/?share_link_id=655289286142), pwd is catalyst ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [11 October 2023 00:12 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/36 "2023-10-11T00:12:44Z")
Wednesday 11-Oct @ 5PM UTC [https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall) Please join us for a Category Scoping Workshop in place of the usual Town Hall. I will be facilitating this workshop, Daniel Ribar will be participating. I’ve outlined a simple agenda over 90 minutes to keep us moving down the list of workshop objectives. 1. For each of the four refined categories, solicit pros/cons. \*There is a separate spot for the concerns that don’t fall under one of the four. \*\*Please note, time is not allocated to alternative categories at this time. Two of the past three workshops did. Future workshops may, this one is edging forward. 2.a Big Cats and Small Cats, solicit pros/cons for having them. 2.b Assuming we use them, solicit stickies for what are the big cat and small cat percentages. We wont know figures until the budget is discussed, future workshop. ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [13 October 2023 21:38 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/37 "2023-10-13T21:38:58Z")
Here’s my update for anyone still following along 🙂 We had our 4th workshop, agenda referenced above. There were 29 attendees in total. We made it through items 1-2a. Here’s some detailed notes from the call and miro board. We took a look at the refined categories as they’ve made it thus far and pros/cons for them: **Cardano Use Cases (product development)** +For being broad +Distinction between products and all else +Not for developers -Ambiguous, real world adoption? -API/Dapp mix is unclear **Cardano Open (non tech)** +Good to have marketing/education category +Value in an open category to catch proposals +includes onboarding -Everything non technical, too competitive -Risks diluting community focus & long term goals **Cardano Open (tech)** +Dev ecosystem could be expansion/events -Dev ecosystem != open source proposals -Concern proposals sneakily divided to be here -Unclear for non open source **Catalyst System Improvements** +Agree with need for research/documentation -Creating too much bureaucracy We had a few items that we felt werent clear which category they may fall in: Dev & Infrastructure, law, open source projects, building on existing tools Also discussed the desire for regional/local focus categories We discussed a few thoughts and the pros and cons of having big cat and small cat tracks: Small cats might be high risk, high reward. Large cats should have a solid dependable development plan. Small cats protect the experimental, innovative and research proposals Small cats would allow new people to compete on a level playing field with other new people, reputation matters less Small/Big removes smaller projects from competing with larger projects for funds Concern downvoting could erase small cats budget Concern big proposals will just break down to multiple smaller ones Big cats competition would increase/be focused Big cat proposal may need more funds but be a less influential proposer, fierce competition Concern split doesnt prevent big wallets from swinging votes No one seemed particularly interested in leading the next workshop so I’ll work on an agenda with objectives and post it. I am actively seeking anyone who wants to help me shape the next meeting, reply here or Discord please. I am also on Telegram, Twitter, Slack etc. (musikc or christina gianelloni) Join us Wednesday, 5PM UTC for the 5th Category Scoping workshop Register here: [Meeting Registration - Zoom](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall) ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [18 October 2023 01:51 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/38 "2023-10-18T01:51:56Z")
Wednesday 18-Oct @ 5PM UTC [https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall) Please join us for a Category Scoping Workshop in place of the usual Town Hall. I’ve outlined a simple agenda over 90 minutes, selecting recent hot workshop topics that line up directly with F10 parameters, and thus likely to be achievable. F10, A5: Minimum budget request per proposal F10, A6: Maximum budget request per proposal F10, A7: Minimum proposal submission fee Bonus if we have the time F10, A10: Maximum proposals that can be put on the ballot \*per person? \*per category? ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [23 October 2023 23:54 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/39 "2023-10-23T23:54:19Z")
Here’s my update on our 5th workshop, agenda referenced above. There were 23 attendees in total. Here’s some notes about the call and miro board **Objective 1: discuss minimum budget per proposal** +Small tracks could be 1k-5k, big tracks over 20k (no discussion on the middle) +Minimums keep projects too small out (did discuss alt disbursement for small) +Past use of 5k usd equivalent in ADA has worked for students +5% of the total challenge allocation -Project creators know better what amount they need -Not in favor of small tracks having a minimum but in favor of it in large tracks -The minimum may be more than some need, could exclude them. **Objective 2: discuss maximum budget per proposal** +Maximum could reflect teams existing funding = dont fund the already funded. +Dependent on how many projects we want to see funded +20% of the total challenge allocation +Others agree but % varies +This will enforce projects better planning their development. Allows for more teams to be funded. -Max and min budget depends on the proposal -The problem is not in the limits. Caps will be regulated as a social exercise. -Max should be put on proposers/teams -People will work around this, create multiple smaller projects instead **Objective 3: discuss proposal submission fee** +A percentage of the requested funds 5% +Small enough to reduce spam +Make it voluntary +Yes and people could sponsor the proposal +Fee proportional to voting power +Yes but refunded at the end of the funding round -Absolutely not. -A fee will limit regions/people that can participate. -Will not reduce spam, motivated people will just pay the fee **Objective 4: discuss a maximum number of proposals on the ballot. Per person/project/category/track etc** +Yes, perhaps 3 or 5 +Yes 1, it helps ensure startups have funding opportunity +Yes, with proof of life (like onboarding) -Cannot confirm per person. Only per wallet -No limits, proposers will just make more accounts -Dont restrict potential good ideas -No, large projects/businesses can split up in teams No one seemed particularly interested in leading the next workshop so I’ll work on an agenda with objectives and post it. I am actively seeking anyone who wants to help me shape the next meeting, reply here or Discord please. I am also on Telegram, Twitter, Slack etc. (musikc or christina gianelloni) Join us Wednesday, 5PM UTC for the 6th AND FINAL Category Scoping workshop before Fund11 Register here: [Meeting Registration via Zoom](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall) ---
**Author:** ![musikc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/musikc/32/69952_2.png) [@musikc](https://forum.cardano.org/u/musikc)\ **Post date:** [24 October 2023 21:14 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718/40 "2023-10-24T21:14:37Z")
Please join us for a Catalyst Category Scoping Workshop, Wednesday 25-Oct @ 5PM UTC [https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall](https://bit.ly/catalyst-townhall)l In our 6th and **FINAL** workshop before F11, we will be covering: - Voting: yes/no/abstain/downvote - Challenge (or Category) teams - Wrap up: what comes next [Previous page](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.cardano.org/t/category-scoping-catalyst-community-discussion/121718.md?page=3)