…iohk summit…


iPhone is proprietary. Maybe how Ballmer reacted to Linux but even then I’m not that arrogant. Is IOS Open Source? Thank you, next.


You don’t live on a universe. You live in one.


Five papers here: https://iohk.io/research/papers/


i can understand the urge to protect the code, but who do you think is going to take it or make it better?

this is an open source movement and code changes daily. the point is for others to verify. it takes a tremendous amount of brain power and talent to build an enterprise grade blockchain in haskell and rust. so the barrier to entry is already very high.

the disconnect, imo, is to have a centralized entity (us patent law) protect a decentralized platform.


I have a gut feeling this Cardano discussion could be the most important we could ever have. When intelligent people can’t reach a fundamental consensus over what is high-level, common sense aspects of a project development model, the problem is generally not the people, but discrepancies in their respective long term visions for the same project.

Consider for a moment the following (best-effort) quote from a discourse between Naomi Brockwell and Charles Hoskinson YouTube, April 2018:

"Where do you see Ethereum in 10 years time? Well, hopefully I hope that Ethereum becomes more like tcp/ip or HTTP something that fades into the backdrop and nobody really thinks about it and they talk about the killer applications like we talked about Facebook, we talk about Google, Amazon, these services, we don’t talk about the underlying technology. So that’s my hope for the Ethereum ecosystem as it fades into the backdrop, it’s there when you need it not there when you don’t, and it’s just infrastructure that enables a fundamental restructuring of the Internet, and as a consequence the world. And what do you think is the most important part of this revolution that Ethereum is going to provide? On-boarding for the unbanked…”

To what degree if any, do you feel Charles’ obviously momentous ambitions underpin or are a part of Cardano? Do they moderate your far-term Cardano vision?

It’s clear to me this thread is the last iteration in a procession of cogent arguments representing two fundamental ideologies with respect to Cardano’s evolution vector. One version is in the backdrop, more like a protocol, and the other version - the Cardano I truly hope comes to fruition - is all of the former, and a brilliant global commercial success story. Are these Cardano’s mutually exclusive? I hope I’m not missing something, but I don’t see why they necessarily have to be.


Thanks. Based on reading these…I’ve read a couple of these, much of what has been published may not be patentable however a Patent Attorney would be the best judge of that. In either case, if this process were under my supervision, I would require that patents be filed riot to disclosure and disclosure is only done through NDA. It’s hard to imagine giving everything away.


If you think all those who advocate for and use open source in this area are so stupid maybe you should invest your money/time/energy elsewhere.


thank the heavens it is NOOOOOOOOOOTTT!!!

crazy how natural selection means that those in the position to create have the insight and foresight not to come to retarded ideas as such…


I don’t claim to be a crypto expert and was referring to one aspect of governance. It’s not literal. C’mon now.

  1. I invest where I want to invest.
  2. I never called anyone stupid.
  3. Freedom of thought and expression are important Stalin.


Well that was unnecessary.

Don’t worry, I won’t comment on anything from you in future, because I won’t read it.


OK so I’ve answered this question beforekt was stated is a different manner. I’m sure you are familiar with Firefox and their relationship with google? It started off as a partnership, then google went off on their own and used chromium to build chrome. So who could take it and make it better, then patent important parts of it. Google, a software enterprise in China (Huawei). The barrier to entry is high, you’re right. How do you get key people to move into the private sector, money. I mean money in real time that they can use to do on vacation with their families, 401ks, bonuses, stock, etc. I’m sure Cardano has a great benefits plan and package but I think that they are managing money in a different manner than let’s say a larger enterprise.

““Google is a multi-national company. It is one of the largest most powerful engineering companies in the world. They have some phenominal scientists working at Google, from world famous cryptographers to infosec people. If Google is going to do a cryptocurrency, Google does not need to partner with Ethereum or Bitcoin or anything else. They’re just going to go ahead and do their own thing.” - these are Charles words. Now chromium was great out the gate but FF was better. Chrome is now engineered to support Google’s. Commercial arm. Chrome is now better…even M$ft is moving in the chrome direction. So can someone take open source and make it better. The answer is a resounding “Yes”.


And likewise, I won’t take your investment advice. If that’s what it was. Like I said, I didn’t call anyone stupid or imply such. That’s nothing but propaganda or trying to create a false narrative.


That is highly subjective. I would pick Chromium over Chrome anytime.


And that is entirely OK. Chromium in many respects is better however Chrome is used more often. Usage counts. So there is this great open source idea that gets made better, “improved”, used for a commercial purpose to make an enterprise money, and the original project is unknown to the masses. The developers that remained don not get to reap all of the benefits of their labor. Google does however. And so you’ll find that many core developers went to work for Google on chrome.


hmm. lemme think about that. so you think google (a centralized company) will beat us at the decentralizing game?
didn’t they avoid $3 billion in taxes?


C’mon - As I said before, we need everyone in the room for this one.

Personal experience: A savvy legal department together with a well known and politically connected law firm can patent a stick, and any line a code. Like it or not, it’s a provable fact.

Please, consider for a moment how peculiar it is for informed people to disagree on demonstrable points. One contrarian view from Charles’ perspective suggests he is securely imbedded in the final self-actualization, exploit-your-potential, life stage.

Further, we need to consider the capital sources enabling all the leading edge engineering fbo Cardano and IOHK, together with the primary beneficiaries of that engineering. Asserting property rights over what is inarguably pioneering engineering can (inevitably so) become exceedingly complex when the future interests of vested parties can not be controlled or satisfactorily predicted…think Cardano and IOHK.

You’d have to be an arsonist or a lawyer not to keep everything open. Charles isn’t stupid, he will ensure IOHK maintains or improves its engineering advantage by leveraging innovations fbo of IOHK while limiting liability arising from claims of damages from those who, in whole or in part, paid for the innovations eg. Cardano and various other clients.

It’s never my intention to appear churlish or condescending, but it can be frequently challenging to locate the source of a gnawing concern. I don’t believe debating patenting as a possibility gets us any closer to the source of Cardano’s risks.


Very impressive, thoughtful, and argumentative replies Michael, will be nice to hear your thoughts on Cardano’s future.

I value Cardano as well diversified initiative, but it delivered too little, too late from business point of view, (may be general thing with all cryptos, not just Cardano).
Anyway, will stop here, I don’t want to open new topic in existing thread.


IOHK isn’t Cardano. Contract expires right? In fact, Charles specifically mentioned that he did not want IOHK to be working on cardano forever. If thats the case, you’re better off investing in IOHK if they hold the tech rights.


As strange as it may sound, I invest the most in Cardano. I also like XRP, and Dash. I used to have EOS but from my standpoint thats a shitecoin. I like ETH except there are too many issues there and if anything I think BTC will be market leader for the next few years if not longer.

So that we’re clear, I’m not providing investment advice in any way. I think Cardano is very promising but its not as grand as fanboys make it out to be. It’s not a solve everything solution and not meant to be from a crypto or networking perspective. Seriously, think about it from a daily use perspective in its current state.

  1. Even though the odds may be astronomical for someone to randomly guess your seed, by definition it is not impossible. And so if that happens, you lose everything and have no chance of getting a penny’s worth back as “Code is law”. Common people may not understand this but if you tell then that there is a chance you lose everything because someone might guess it…what do you think they will say? Why do you think people put money in banks and not keep it at home? They keep it there because its safe and the responsibility is on the bank and if the bank is robbed, they are insured and will get their money back.

  2. This whole Africa thing. Like I previously stated, how many people in Africa can afford a ledger or short wave or ham radio set up to capture airwaves for crypto transmissions? Really? How many people are using outdated computers? How many people have high speed internet/coax/fiber? I’m guessing not many.

  3. How many people would find crypto convenient because you have to keep syncing blocks, updating your wallet. I mean a vulnerability was found on Ledger (Ransom vulnerability) and the firmware needed an update. I’ve had my leather wallet now for 4 years and never had t update that. Not once. In fact, I received this as a gift and can go back to my old wallet and that would work just as fine as the first day I bought it. Know what…if I dropped it in water with a hundred dollars, I could still go spend that hundred without a problem. Ledger, not waterproof. I’d have to restore, get the seed, get a new ledger, make sure that was not tampered with, then install ledger live on a new comp, update any firmware, etc etc. So much for convenience.

  4. Smart contracts, Dapps, low ransactions fees. Those are available now and services include 24 hour phone support in some cases. PayPal does not where I am. They have 12 hour support. If I have an issue with my Ledger, Trezor, Daedalus, Yoroi, I have to go to the community, post my issue, wait for my response…so much for privacy.

  5. Cardano will be a boon for Fintech. Sure. I can see that, but isn’t that use case being well served by XRP?

  6. Back to Africa for a second…Why not focus development and deployment in the developed world first? How far along would we be if the Internet’s release strategy was Africa first? Nothing against Africa, I’m merely making a point that the developed country has the legal framework to handle disputes, better cyber security, and the economy to support purchasing and maintaining hardware and software to further adoption.

I’ll keep on investing because this is the most credible venture. I highly doubt that all the good folks at IOHK, Yoroi, and other entities are interested in wasting their time to build something fraudulent or unsuccessful. It’s actually the opposite. Ive researched many of these folks and they not only have the brainpower but have worked on successful projects. Why in the world would they then invest time on a scam? Based on everything I have researched this is beyond one in a million. Also there is a sense of consistency and follow through that I appreciate. It’s not like Larimer who keeps jumping ship to new projects. I can appreciate the thoroughness and commitment to peer review (with caveats of course) because making something this important should be solid, not like ETH where you make change over change for the last change and then delay the next change that was to improve the last change and want to move to POS and delay that again and again.

Yea Cardano is a best in class investment. For me it’s BTC, Stellar, Ripple/XRP, Cardano, Dash with Cardano at #1 or #2.