Relentless Slide vs. BTC

What do you want them to market for? There is no product, Cardano is vaporware, its nothing, it cant do anything. They have already done their funding, so there is no point to get more investors looking at it from Cardanos perspective, there is simply no marketing to do for now. They need to build a product, then market the product to people who can use it. They cant do that now, since there is nothing, Its just air and ideas. Cardanos success as a project is not the price is not reflected in the short term price of ADA.

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Interesting thread. Question for the traders as I’m new to trading crypto. Regarding selling high and buying more in the dips. I am psychologically unsuited to do that for better or worse. But even if I wasn’t wouldn’t the new US tax laws (where I live) mean that every time I sold and bought more at a lower price it would be a taxable event? So far I’ve just been using USD to ether to Ada to get more. Thanks.

Thats what you should do, dont start trading, Its a game you wont win. It would be something that would take you many losses and years to even have a chance of doing successfully but it means you have probably be in the top 2% of liquidity providers so you have to have significant edge over your competitors. I wrote about it here, its the 10th comment. Cardano to de-throne Bitcoin Cash this month! - #8 by RobMcvay Just accumulate, dont put it all in, and buy when it goes down, not when it goes up, these are opportunities to sell a little.

Again I agree with you to an extent. However they CAN market themsleves better. Ingratiate themselves with the press. Talk about partneships. You know how I found out they have an ICO developing on cardano in a thread here yesterday and I listen to all charles 's interviews and look for news on them daily. You know how much chatter J sun would generate if their was already an ICO developing on TRON. Of course they can market better. EOS is vapeware to. Don’t get me wrong for the most part i love cardano’s approach but to say they CANT get the word out in a more mainstream way about what they are accomplishing is ridic. If you actually want more volume buying then people shouldnt have to diligently research you to find out what you are in the process of accomplishing. This is a retail market man. Sorry but it is.

The point is not if they can or cannot, the point is there is no point in getting the word out. The only reason you think there is a point is that you are currently a speculator on the coin and you want to see your coin-value go on no basis other than hype.

Charles is out there doing lots of stuff, lots of speeches, and I see news popping up more and more. Its happening all natural and organic. Remember, Cardano has a higher market cap than EOS and TRON already.

We all want to see the coin value go up(at least eventually). And if they care about their investors then maybe they should to. I actually dont care that much for my own sake ( i think) if the price goes down significantly ill buy more. But of course their is a point in letting people know more easily about the product you are developing. Good lord could you imagine if SJ went to his early shareholders and said you know what we really dont care about getting the word out about what we are trying to accomplish theirs not a whole lot of point. common man.

Anyways im fine with things the way they are for the moment. But if your just an average guy who bought cardano for a dollar cause you saw it booming you might be pretty pissed that they can barely get a decent article written about them.

Thanks jb455. Regarding the marketing Charles seems to be very much a under promise over deliver kind of guy which I like. He also seems to hold the opinion (which I do also) that the crypto market is due for shake up do to the proliferation of shit coins that have no real function. He wants the moral high ground when the inevitable happens probably. I recall that the event that propelled Ethereum from the $10 range to its current heights was the announcement of the enterprise Ethereum alliance and all the fortune 500s in it. If/when that starts to happen is when things get interesting if history is a guide. Hopefully a lot of behind the scenes stuff with that. Also the confusion around total supply with the decimal places and whatnot puts people off at this point in my opinion. Having a good marketing team and social media presence (other than Charles) is important obviously though. I hope that they are ready to do the job when the time comes. It is the responsibility of the foundation for that. They should somehow tackle the misconceptions about total supply as a start though. I often see that brought up on forums. I’ll reserve judgement until Shelly comes out. If I don’t like what I see then I’ll get more vocal. In the meantime I buy low!

No we dont all want that, that is simply not true. That is Your objective as a speculator, which most are in this forum. I am also a speculator on ADA, I am not distancing myself from that group.

But there are much more important aspects than that.

The objective of Cardano and ADA (as the vision is now with Charles at the helm) is to create a value stable token, that neither goes up or down, so it can be used as money. Now before we come to that point you as a speculator is betting on the appreciation up until that point. So you have to differentiate between your objectives, and Cardanos, users, programmers, entrepreneurs, and Charles objectives. They are not the same, but with that said, all stakeholders also have some aligned goals in between.

If ADA has to work as money, that means a user does not buy ADA or receive ADA to have it appreciate, but holds their savings in ADA. You dont invest in money, you exchange money, you park your economic energy in money. You invest in companies, you invest in stocks, you invest in yield-producing assets. You dont invest in money, the only reason this is somehow being complicated for people to understand is that we are in weird transitioning to that point, where it is somehow an investment when you are in early stages of funding the network. This is why this awkward situations arrive - where we are talking about investing in what is supposedly suppose to be money. If you believe Cardano will be money, what you are essentially doing by getting in early is capitalizing on the wealth transfer of whatever previous “money” money was. That is where new money would get its value from, when we are talking about unbacked currencies, if the whole thing can succeed in the first place but for the point being, lets assume it can.

Interesting thoughts. I thought crypto in general and Cardano in particular can possibly function as a currency but it also has utility like a commodity.

The utility is only to give the currency some value, besides being money. See the problem is, you cant have money that is backed by nothing, that is why by giving it utility this is supposed to be its backing - so the utility gives it value - this is trying to circumvent backing it with traditional assets. It is questionable if it will work - but Bitcoin for sure wont, since it has no uses and is backed by nothing.

If I told you that Bitcoin would never go up from this day (and that day has to come) would you be interested in Bitcoin lol? 99% would sell… Because there only interest in Bitcoin is appreciation… and that is not the goal of money… Money has to be a store of value with little or no risk… That is why you cant have money that isn’t also a commodity… The commodity is what stabilizes it, since people need/want the commodity by itself.

Even Cardano… We could actually back it by something… If we all voted to take money out of the treasury, lets say the network generates 3%/market cap every year in fees, we could buy 2% gold (or a basket of assets) every year and stock it up in trust - basically we would eventually be 100% backed, or perhaps keep the goal at 50%, this would give us a great anchor of stability without any dilution and put in a solid floor.

I dont think we will get people to join in on that before we actually see that backing is needed.

I’m clearly not an economist though I have an interest in economics, particularly behavioural economics. The value of currency is very interesting to me because to a large extent we all collectively decide that paper money is worth something. Crypto is genius. Thanks Satoshi!

That is not exactly true.

Dollar was originally Gold. The Dollar was a claimcheck for the money in the bank sitting in a vault, which was the Gold. We just used dollars as it was easier to carry around and make different denomination.

Now its not, its lost 99% of its value since removing backing, but its still in use, why is this?

The dollar is backed by the force of the Government, as we have to pay taxes in said currency. Regardless of what country you live in. That is where the demand for that currency comes from, and it forces everyone in that country to transact in it. Its backed by force. CrytoCurrencies cant back by force, it can only back by choice. Its like if there was a gang, going around saying YOU HAVE TO TRANSACT IN BITCOIN or we will put you in jail. Bitcoin would be backed by force. It wouldn’t need any real backing either then, everybody would just comply.

Many people who dont understand money come to believe these hype things that Dollars have no value etc, Its just faith, and thats not entirely true. Backed by Force.

and Btw. As far as I know Economist is not a protected title, so anyone can basically call himself/herself a economist if you like.

Good point, force definitely helps maintain the illusion. I would like to bring up the hyperinflation in Venezuela though. I think at some point not even force can convince people their currency is worth something. I’m adding economist to my resume now BTW thanks!

But it is not an illusion it is a true and real mechanic - the hyper inflation in Venezuela is due to money printing, it is again a direct mechanic diluting the currency value, it is not happening by faith or people believing it is suddenly going down in value. It is actually really going down in value. Faith has a pricing mechanism it does, but it is only a small part and it is exacerbated in extreme situations where all faith is lost - but that doesn’t happen under “normal” circumstances - it takes a lot of abuse.

It’s all an illusion! As Doug Henning used to say LOL! Dating myself with that one.

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None of these projects would have particpants nor the capital to start up or maintain themselves without rising valuations. ICO s often make clear, at least indirectly, aspects of their offering structure that offer a potential high value for their tokens/coins. Thats rather obvious point being put forward, Cardano has been specific about developing a value stable currency. So Im going to give them pass. This specific project I do in fact believe in for it’s own sake. I would still like to see better buyer accesible information in print. All that being said thank you for clarifying this point especially as I do think it is particularly relevant to ADA. Cheers

I am also concerned about the extended downslide of ADA against BTC, but not because it’s not making me profits right now. I’m concerned because this demonstrates a consistent downward selling pressure with many many large sell orders along the way, marking an exit of some substantial stakeholders in the project. If the stakeholders lose faith in the project, then the market will become saturated, depressing the value even more and stigmatizing the coin as a bad investment.

Part of cardano’s token value is also returned to the foundation treasury for supporting future development, but if people lose faith in a return on investment and stop buying, then there is no new money flowing in to fund that development and the project will stagnate.

Changing the world through crypto is a great and noble ambition, but if you lose all the community support that’s been gained because there is no longer a perceived investment value by the public writ large, then the project will fail regardless of how noble the philosophy or how disruptive it otherwise would have been to the global economy. Adoption is key, and adoption happens through retail investment by John Q. Public. Once public interest dissipates, the current price of the coin is no longer relevant because it has no utility. That’s why the project NEEDS to be marketed from the earliest stages all the way through adoption, and if something doesn’t change in that department with Cardano, I’m afraid the work that’s been put into it will be wasted. I don’t mean just marketed to blockchain nerds like myself, but a broader campaign is required to inform the public of the future utility of the project so that when that utility is ready to go people will already be paying attention. Crypto moves fast, and today’s darling is tomorrow’s orphan.

It’s a common logical fallacy to think that people will instantly fall in love with something just because you made it, or because you personally think its a great project. The crypto graveyard is full of examples of why you can never take that for granted.

Here Here Tenacious J

Im guessing you just saw the 6 million + sell order effectively pushing down the fiat price. My guess is if this is happening by some entity … pushing down the price for institutional investment. one can only hope i guess