# Stake pool cold keys HD derivation

**URL:** <https://forum.cardano.org/t/stake-pool-cold-keys-hd-derivation/43360>\
**Category:** CIPs\
**Tags:** stake-pools, pool-operator\
**Created:** [17 December 2020 14:37 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/stake-pool-cold-keys-hd-derivation/43360 "2020-12-17T14:37:59Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Rafael\_Korbas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/rafael_korbas/32/10395_2.png) [@Rafael\_Korbas](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Rafael_Korbas)\
**Post date:** [17 December 2020 14:37 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/stake-pool-cold-keys-hd-derivation/43360/1 "2020-12-17T14:37:59Z")

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(Hierarchical) deterministic derivation of cold keys allows for their restorability from a seed and most importantly, their management on hardware wallet devices which in turn mitigates man-in-the middle attacks to which pool operators would otherwise be vulnerable if they managed their stake pool cold keys on a device not specifically hardened against alteration of the data to be signed/serialized without operator’s explicit consent.

Here’s a CIP that tackles this by proposing a standard to derive stake pool cold keys: [https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/56/files](https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/56/files)

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**Author:** ![zhekson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/zhekson/32/50488_2.png) [@zhekson](https://forum.cardano.org/u/zhekson)\
**Post date:** [2 February 2022 18:36 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/stake-pool-cold-keys-hd-derivation/43360/2 "2022-02-02T18:36:07Z")

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This is a great idea, though in its current form I wonder if it leaves many existing SPO’s behind. Many of us have already generated our cold keys without this standard, and are thus unable to implement CIP-1853.

Perhaps we could use an addition to this CIP (or a completely new CIP), that allows us to transfer ownership of a stake pool from one pair of cold keys to another. That way, for the many of us who already have stake pools, we can migrate our pools to this new standard.

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**Author:** ![COSDpool](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/cosdpool/32/21482_2.png) [@COSDpool](https://forum.cardano.org/u/COSDpool)\
**Post date:** [2 January 2024 00:06 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/stake-pool-cold-keys-hd-derivation/43360/3 "2024-01-02T00:06:33Z")

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@zhekson @Rafael_Korbas we are trying to decide whether there have been any implementations of this, as per this (mostly status review & formatting) update:

> <https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/725>
>
> Fixes #724.
> 
> (\[updated proposal\](https://github.com/rphair/CIPs/blob/remediate…-1853/CIP-1853/README.md))

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**Author:** ![zhekson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/zhekson/32/50488_2.png) [@zhekson](https://forum.cardano.org/u/zhekson)\
**Post date:** [2 January 2024 02:28 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/stake-pool-cold-keys-hd-derivation/43360/4 "2024-01-02T02:28:25Z")

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Not that I know of - as far as I can tell, any potential solutions to this would introduce a lot of new complexity to the ledger.

This is probably not worth it for the few operators it would apply to (such as myself), who are ok with doing low level things manually. Kind of reminds me of the whole Icarus-Trezor key derivation debacle.

Apologies for not updating my thoughts on the relevant SPO Transfer CIP - I can do that now, or just close it if necessary.