Tezos proposal to implement aspects of Ouroboros protocol

Our good friends from Tezos are looking to integrate some Ouroboros features into their protocol, namely the way leaders are elected and how/when their selection status is made available to the network

the specific details of the proposal here

a reddit post on the proposal

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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IMO Cardano should have been patented, having patents with the Cardano Foundation who should have released it to open source in 2025.

Algorand (so much praised by Charles) is patented.

It’s a competitive market and I would protect IP for a period of time.

If everyone would be open source that would be a different story, but that’s not the case …

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Does that mean Cardano is superior to Tezos?

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Absolutely.

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Man, welcome back!
But I beg to differ with you again, if you are to change the world and improve lives around the globe and you have a superior product why the heck would you patent it? Why would you keep it out of the hands of other people that want to change the world? Pretty much all Crypto developers that produce anything worthwhile are trying to change the world, the current state of the globe needs hero’s, if someone can learn from the development of Cardano and build on the original idea of satoshi why get regulators involved? Lawsuits?
Why patent earth shaking developments?
I obviously do not get it, I dislike Algorand’s approach, I dislike every new development in our world where people can be left behind cause they cannot pay for a “Liscence”, blockchain tech should be open source and the patent loving greedy contributers should be brought down by the rest of us…

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i am in 2 minds about patents… philosophically i disagree with them but at the same time i do understand the arguments in favour for them… in my utopia theres probably room for them but with a non competitive grace period like 2 to 5 years

re cardano i am not really concerned, we have some really bright minds on our side who are following their passion and that is an unstoppable combination

even though we are trail blazers we are still standing on the shoulders of giants… and just last month Halo was published - which could potentially derail our basho plans once it’s proven without compromising security… but that is the point isn’t it, others need to validate claims or expose the holes so we can all move forward…

the more open this industry the more collaboration and quicker we solve real problems and bring crypto to the mainstream

with the people and passion we have at cardano we shouldn’t fear others

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I am of the strong opinion the subject of Cardano+patents is one of several keys which will enable the fleshing-out of a comprehensive understanding of Charles’ objectives. There are many moving parts to consider, but the U-2 pic is, Cardano may be the means to an end divergent from all our expectations.

The normal frustration arising from the squander of crucial, time sensitive opportunities, coupled with Charles’ contemptuous, indifferent responses have potentially distracted many effective options over the years. I’m trying to understand the situation, I’m not there, yet.

I believe the question is: Why would Charles not patent, when doing so would afford significant and crucial short term benefits for Cardano?

  1. Philosophy? Rothbard advocated the negotiation of copyright terms without any government involvement. Many ’libertarian’ flavors advocate significant reduction in government involvement.
    Answer: Demonstrably, no.

  2. Resource limitations? Too expensive, too time consuming?
    Answer: Demonstrably, no.

  3. Failed to comprehend benefits?
    Answer: Demonstrably, no.

  4. He chose not to patent, fully aware such choice was diametrically apposed to his best interest?
    Answer: Demonstrably, no.

Assuming 1-4 for the moment, what are your thoughts wrt why?

Yeah, this IP non-sense debates come from our instinct called jealousy and fear (driven by omission bias, which was quite effective for surviving back to some time).:slightly_smiling_face:

Hopefully, in some time (some hundreds of thousands years, if you are a geneticist you would now why takes that long), if we would survive (very low chance) we probably would overgrown of these.

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“Entrepreneurs are heroes in our society. They fail for the rest of us.”

:warning: I am a Rothbard Capitalist :warning:

“IP nonsense, jealousy, fear”

Is that your experience, or academic?

I’ve filed patents resulting in life improving benefits which may/should/hope continue long after I’m dead. While geneticists conflated effect with knowledge, I got scars, worked hard, and made stuff :+1:.

I’ve also lived and worked with la gauche caviar, champagne socialists all my life, and not a single one lived the style of life they advocated for others; a few relished the contradiction, but most couldn’t ‘see’ their hypocrisy :wink: .

The U.S. patent system is just a tool. A gun is just a tool. People use our patent system for bad and good. People use guns for bad and good. Here’s the point: If you want to win, you have to play the cards your dealt, and by the rules of the system. I’ve never filed a patent out of jealousy or fear. Success is not the product of emotions, much less negative ones. In a thousand years, I’m likely dead :shushing_face:, but I’ll sleep well knowing I did my best. I worked hard at winning.

The situation with Charles is straightforward wrt Cardano’s intellectual property - the intellectual property you and I have paid for. It’s not in his best interest to protect it, so why would he? His long term opportunities as an entrepreneur, are increased an order of magnitude by the distribution of Cardano’s intellectual property to various other development concerns who, of course, then initiate filing to protect, under their own title. This has already taken place, by the way.

Here’s another slightly risqué but humorous and true Taleb quote:

"Academia is to knowledge what prostitution is to love; close enough on the surface but, to the nonsucker, not exactly the same thing”:joy:

I committed to Cardano when I saw it was doing R&D properly, unlike any other crypto at the time, meaning with heavy academic involvement. These solid foundations are what give it world beating potential.

@_ilap @deepau One could argue that academia-derived & patent-free work has been more transformative to our societies overall… But I will go with “There is no point in opposing the two”

One reason why Linux is a better software (operating system) than Windows is that Linux is open source and Windows is not. Open source patent-less software tend to be more tested by a wider audience. Such testing makes the software better over time. Also more people tend to contribute more features-rich improvements. Closed source patented software tend to be tested by a smaller set of audience. Case in point Microsoft has moved their entire .Net Core SDK to an open source development. Anyone can copy it and use it. They are even giving away free VS Code IDE. Beside don’t forget, IOHK has Atala which is a for profit permission enterprise blockchain (patented). So, I think CH has a strategic method to the madness of a patent-less Ouroboros or Cardano. Just my humble my 2 cents.

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The humor is wrt the quintessential career academic who’s incapable of grasping his in-utero theory fails at real world relevancy. That’s all :wink:. As we know, it’s a very different reality for the tenured class at subsidized institutions. They profit regardless, thanks to perverse incentives. As a population, they’d starve if faced with life applied.

Of course, obviously, research processes have value, but only as a theoretical derivative to any number of very effective ‘industry’, functional design and development processes.

Consider distribution, utility, objectives and timing.

The attainment of Cardano’s objectives is heavily dependent on timing. The quality/robustness vs time to market argument is 100% artificial ie. fallacious.

That this fact will be obvious in the near future has no benefit to Cardano today.

In my experience, when academia ‘accidentally’ created potential, capitalists sweat the transformation to kinetic or it dies a c.v. line item.

I’m am proud to know Cardano is open source! It will only make it stronger and my re trustworthy as time passes

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Your experience has nothing special about it, it is always the case. But this does not change the fact that we’re looking at two faces of the same coin. Otherwise “capitalists” would still be devising the best ways to burn a candle instead of improving LED lights. That is why I don’t take sides, both are useful. We should just ask ourselves when and where one is dysfunctional or at risk.

Algorand (so much praised by Charles) is patented.

First, you’ve made a false assumption my experience supports your beliefs. Obviously, they do not. A moments contemplation refutes this given their facts. Also, one should use their own values, experience and education for the creation of their world views instead of committing fallacies.

Second, you’ve contradicted yourself.

Third, if this is your personality baseline, it’s my strong opinion your Ambassadorship is a mistake.

What I wish to convey is the idea that Cardano’s “IP” must be either “free” or locked away for nefarious ends, is in direct conflict with demonstrable facts.

Not all of Cardano’s assets were or are required to be open source for the many benefits of transparency, which by the way, I value highly. It’s not that simple, and it’s certainly not zero sum.

Has the IP protection tool been misused, abused to the detriment of society, of course yes. However, far greater net good has come from its use. It must be re-imagined by the people, then reformed so that it functions as intended, as envisioned.