# Where did the Block rewards go?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Stake Delegation\ **Created:** [11 November 2021 09:44 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343 "2021-11-11T09:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ADA4Good](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/ada4good/32/39440_2.png) [@ADA4Good](https://forum.cardano.org/u/ADA4Good)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 09:44 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/1 "2021-11-11T09:44:16Z")
Hello everybody, Yesterday, I noticed an abnormal/unexpected drop in the per epoch block rewards, which I and our xSPO community cannot explain. I checked the block rewards of multiple pools including my own from epoch 292 until 299 and this is what I found in terms of block rewards: ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/uploads/cardano/original/3X/4/5/45e2a77e48fd28e94c55ee9298c3ef27c46e9f00.png) To get the block rewards, I summed the delegators and operator rewards and divided that by the number of blocks minted in epoch. My source of data was adapools and cardanoscan. As you can see, and as is expected, the block rewards should gradually decrease over time as a fixed percentage of the reserves is used to payout the rewards and these reserves deplete over time (decreasing rate of inflation). More information about this mechanism is to be found [in this post](https://forum.cardano.org/t/understanding-rewards-flow-and-how-it-will-change-over-time/68602) But as you can see in the image above, there was a 3,8% drop in 1 epoch, which normally would take many epochs. With the xSPO community, we analyzed possible reasons for the drop and figured out that the drop is caused by a reduction of the reserves of Cardano. see here: [Pots | Cardano Staking](https://adapools.org/pots) Reserves in 298: 11.68B ₳ Reserves in 299: 11.34B ₳ (3% lower than 298) So something drastically reduced the Reserves. There was no unexpected high number of blocks or any temporarily increased rewards. The above adapools link shows an untypical high number of rewards in Epoch 299 with 856.97M ₳ instead of the typical ~550M. But this number seems to be unrealistic in any case as the expected rewards per Epoch are ~30M So the key question here is: **What reduced the Reserves by ~340M ADA?** Is this maybe cause by the dbsync rewards bug which affects the values shown by adapools/cardanoscan? Is there a way to see transactions that are going out of the Reserve? Not sure if this relates to a publicly visible address? There were 4 new private pools in this same epoch; all with 64M ada ---
**Author:** ![Alexd1985](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/alexd1985/32/23759_2.png) [@Alexd1985](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Alexd1985)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 10:44 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/2 "2021-11-11T10:44:31Z")
> [@ADA4Good](#): > > d the block rewards of multiple p perhaps the catalyst winners received the funds? you can track here the treasure > **[Treasury, Circulation, Reserves and Rewards Allocations](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xny1W7HhHANLNeQcnbr8El5rakJ80VIM7fgDwJ-uqys/edit#gid=0)** > > Treasury, Circulation, Rewards, Reserves > > Era,Epoch,Epoch Start,d during epoch,k during epoch,Snapshot from end of epoch,Rewards given for epoch,Circulation at start of epoch (Lovelace),Reserves at start of epoch (Lovelace),Difference from... ---
**Author:** ![ADA4Good](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/ada4good/32/39440_2.png) [@ADA4Good](https://forum.cardano.org/u/ADA4Good)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 10:47 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/3 "2021-11-11T10:47:22Z")
From what I understand, the catalyst rewards are paid out of the treasury and not out of the reserves so that would not affect block rewards at all 20% of the amount of rewards are sent to treasury each epoch anyway already. ---
**Author:** ![Alexd1985](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/alexd1985/32/23759_2.png) [@Alexd1985](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Alexd1985)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 10:56 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/4 "2021-11-11T10:56:14Z")
yeah, you are right, the rewards are coming from reserves… not from the treasury ---
**Author:** ![Alexd1985](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/alexd1985/32/23759_2.png) [@Alexd1985](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Alexd1985)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 11:28 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/5 "2021-11-11T11:28:01Z")
I found this > **[ADANOMICS – Cardano ADA supply, reserves and rewards](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/adanomics-cardano-ada-supply-reserves-rewards-komarovskiy-mba/)** > > Where do Cardano ADA staking rewards come from? I often get asked “Where do ADA rewards come from?” and “Can I expect to earn consistent returns from my investment in the coming years?” It is important for Cardano investors and community to... ---
**Author:** ![Markus-VITAL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/markus-vital/32/31295_2.png) [@Markus-VITAL](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Markus-VITAL)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 12:41 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/6 "2021-11-11T12:41:15Z")
To evaluate if the issue is just a problem in querying data I verified if the rewards which really appear in the addresses of my delegators are matching the data which is shown on AdaPools. I can confirm that the rewards are really lower. So a simple problem with reading the data is NOT the case. Instead, the table which @Alexd1985 posted above also shows that the Reserves were decreasing by 340M (which is 320M more than typically per Epoch). The table assumes it was used for rewards but this is not the case as it would have caused 17x rewards in one single epoch, which was not the case. At the same time, the circulating supply increased by the same value. **So who took out ADA from the reserves and for which purpose?** Why is there no public communication from Cardano Foundation about it? They are managing the reserve and taking out parts of the rewards which are originally meant to be used for Rewards and Treasury should not be done without explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Markus-VITAL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/markus-vital/32/31295_2.png) [@Markus-VITAL](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Markus-VITAL)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 12:46 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/7 "2021-11-11T12:46:18Z")
Btw. due to the table, there was a similar drop in Epoch 232 in December 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Benagain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/benagain/32/44897_2.png) [@Benagain](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Benagain)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 15:38 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/9 "2021-11-11T15:38:15Z")
This is very peculiar, and that is no small sum of ADA. Let’s keep on digging on this! Sorry I do not have more to add to the convo just yet, but team HODLR will start investigating as well. ---
**Author:** ![Benagain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/benagain/32/44897_2.png) [@Benagain](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Benagain)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 15:54 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/10 "2021-11-11T15:54:18Z")
> [@ADA4Good](#): > > There were 4 new private pools in this same epoch; all with 64M ada @ADA4Good , I wasn’t able to find these new pools. Can you share? We may be able to trace the Tx’s that filled these pools, and see if they originated from the treasury. ---
**Author:** ![ADA4Good](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/ada4good/32/39440_2.png) [@ADA4Good](https://forum.cardano.org/u/ADA4Good)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 16:24 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/11 "2021-11-11T16:24:50Z")
> [@Benagain](#): > > > [@ADA4Good](#): > > > > There were 4 new private pools in this same epoch; all with 64M ada > > @ADA4Good , I wasn’t able to find these new pools. Can you share? We may be able to trace the Tx’s that filled these pools, and see if they originated from the treasury. @Markus-VITAL can you assist with this information please? ---
**Author:** ![Xpriens](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/xpriens/32/45030_2.png) [@Xpriens](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Xpriens)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 16:32 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/12 "2021-11-11T16:32:04Z")
I believe it’s those 4 you are talking about 3d5f6d2a147cf3c97aed0d7ea973e6a95abdf94255025bdf470c9809 ad1b6687f605b3543f9315a5f966ea70fc5f35e7b2a4c3a943bef78d b405a62715301a625c2fd5eb3f5b16be9f1f3f0452f5b8b9286997c4 ea5f1fb21658736dce6e8c63a516e9e5d645e104b9efbfbb395d7e68 ---
**Author:** ![Markus-VITAL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/markus-vital/32/31295_2.png) [@Markus-VITAL](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Markus-VITAL)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 17:46 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/13 "2021-11-11T17:46:44Z")
Ok… who can explain me where the rewards of 66m for this transaction which was funding the first of the above mentioned pools come from? > **[Transaction e043b059e5a34b18e490cfbb65b2b9534f89bf5eae81fd0b905e5744da5d1936...](https://cardanoscan.io/transaction/e043b059e5a34b18e490cfbb65b2b9534f89bf5eae81fd0b905e5744da5d1936?tab=withdrawals)** > > Transaction e043b059e5a34b18e490cfbb65b2b9534f89bf5eae81fd0b905e5744da5d1936 page with transaction > assurance, timestamp, UTXO, certificates, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Xpriens](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/xpriens/32/45030_2.png) [@Xpriens](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Xpriens)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 18:06 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/14 "2021-11-11T18:06:28Z")
66m rewards lol 😅 ---
**Author:** ![Benagain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/benagain/32/44897_2.png) [@Benagain](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Benagain)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 19:11 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/15 "2021-11-11T19:11:12Z")
> **[Stake Key 0fa8268618b0142a786b6c21684ac755ba14109f2a03746f3a0a3659 - Cardanoscan](https://cardanoscan.io/stakekey/0fa8268618b0142a786b6c21684ac755ba14109f2a03746f3a0a3659)** > > Stake Key 0fa8268618b0142a786b6c21684ac755ba14109f2a03746f3a0a3659 page shows > controlled stake, delegations, and recent history. Isn’t this a positive indicator that it came from the treasury? ---
**Author:** ![Benagain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/benagain/32/44897_2.png) [@Benagain](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Benagain)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 19:17 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/16 "2021-11-11T19:17:57Z")
Also, ADA4Good had this link in the OP and it gives a great graph of the anomaly. > **[Pots](https://adapools.org/pots)** ---
**Author:** ![Markus-VITAL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/markus-vital/32/31295_2.png) [@Markus-VITAL](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Markus-VITAL)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 20:02 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/17 "2021-11-11T20:02:44Z")
It was part of a list of “instantenuous rewards” which can be found here: [Transaction 03b02cff29a5f2dfc827e00345eaab8b29a3d740e9878aa6e5dd2b52da0763c5 - Cardanoscan](https://cardanoscan.io/transaction/03b02cff29a5f2dfc827e00345eaab8b29a3d740e9878aa6e5dd2b52da0763c5?tab=instantaneousrewards) Total rewards amount: 318M Metadata says: { “presale-escrow”: “Moved from reserves to ada pre-sale redemption escrow” } ---
**Author:** ![Markus-VITAL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/markus-vital/32/31295_2.png) [@Markus-VITAL](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Markus-VITAL)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 20:40 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/18 "2021-11-11T20:40:47Z")
Ok, after digging some deeper I see that the Address which paid for those instantaneous rewards is also executing protocol updates. Previous transactions: > **[Transaction 3d24e82502b671f2423cc862d4e3199164ceba8cd4711c680ca4a6b408d3ff60...](https://cardanoscan.io/transaction/3d24e82502b671f2423cc862d4e3199164ceba8cd4711c680ca4a6b408d3ff60?tab=metadata)** > > Transaction 3d24e82502b671f2423cc862d4e3199164ceba8cd4711c680ca4a6b408d3ff60 page with transaction > assurance, timestamp, UTXO, certificates, and more. > **[Transaction be0871e2460299600d49780ed50d7eabbbcc5a876b36657028f15517638e6f65...](https://cardanoscan.io/transaction/be0871e2460299600d49780ed50d7eabbbcc5a876b36657028f15517638e6f65?tab=protocolupdates)** > > Transaction be0871e2460299600d49780ed50d7eabbbcc5a876b36657028f15517638e6f65 page with transaction > assurance, timestamp, UTXO, certificates, and more. > **[Transaction 51fa37794d2107d7d8705cd69594c5162ced13f922235a99d06aff20c64656b6...](https://cardanoscan.io/transaction/51fa37794d2107d7d8705cd69594c5162ced13f922235a99d06aff20c64656b6?tab=protocolupdates)** > > Transaction 51fa37794d2107d7d8705cd69594c5162ced13f922235a99d06aff20c64656b6 page with transaction > assurance, timestamp, UTXO, certificates, and more. > **[Transaction 8cab8049e3b8c4802d7d11277b21afc74056223a596c39ef00e002c2d1f507ad...](https://cardanoscan.io/transaction/8cab8049e3b8c4802d7d11277b21afc74056223a596c39ef00e002c2d1f507ad?tab=metadata)** > > Transaction 8cab8049e3b8c4802d7d11277b21afc74056223a596c39ef00e002c2d1f507ad page with transaction > assurance, timestamp, UTXO, certificates, and more. > **[Transaction a01b9fe136e5703668c9c7776a76cc8541b84824635d237e270670a8ca56a392...](https://cardanoscan.io/transaction/a01b9fe136e5703668c9c7776a76cc8541b84824635d237e270670a8ca56a392?tab=metadata)** > > Transaction a01b9fe136e5703668c9c7776a76cc8541b84824635d237e270670a8ca56a392 page with transaction > assurance, timestamp, UTXO, certificates, and more. The last one is referring in the metadata to an IOG Github issue: [github.com/input-output-hk/cardano-ledger-specs/pull/2010](http://github.com/input-output-hk/cardano-ledger-specs/pull/2010) So the rewards were initiated by IOG as it seems. Now the question is. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Jacobneider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/jacobneider/32/26009_2.png) [@Jacobneider](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Jacobneider)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 21:26 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/19 "2021-11-11T21:26:59Z")
Maybe the overall staked ADA is higher? ---
**Author:** ![Benagain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/benagain/32/44897_2.png) [@Benagain](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Benagain)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 21:57 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/20 "2021-11-11T21:57:00Z")
Maybe they plan on spreading around that delegation 🙂 #WishfulThinking ---
**Author:** ![Markus-VITAL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forum.cardano.org/markus-vital/32/31295_2.png) [@Markus-VITAL](https://forum.cardano.org/u/Markus-VITAL)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2021 22:35 UTC](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343/21 "2021-11-11T22:35:31Z")
No, this would not reduce the ROA of individual delegators. Lost rewards based on un-staked ADA are removed back to the reserve. If staked it’s a bigger portion that is consumed. The ROA is the same but rewards would shrink faster then. But no reason for a sudden drop. [Next page](https://forum.cardano.org/t/where-did-the-block-rewards-go/84343.md?page=2)