Asking Justice for CRO delegators and Cardano Foundation

Yes it is.In the screenshot, you can see that the margin and cost parameters haven’t changed yet. And by the time they change, the delegation is already out of snapshot.

It is not true. The damage is being done in the current epoch (264).

I wonder when they bother to correct that description.

@waldmops Can you please be a little more specific about what was or was not true? The question was about whether the increase to 99% was beneficial for the Cro Pool or not. (I am almost sure we mean the same thing)

It’s not uncommon for SPOs to have false statements in their metadata. Look at Bloom ‘highest return on stake’. A lot of people say the same thing.

Yes, that is indeed what I understand to be the question but now I’m not at all certain any more what the right answer is. CF delegated in epoch 262, the predatory fee change happened in epoch 263 and the increased block production due to the delegation can be seen in epoch 264. CF also withdrew their delegation in epoch 264.

Does the fee change kick in in epoch 264 or 265? Where is that documented?

As you can see from the screenshot from tomdx changes kick in in epoch 266. Screenshot looks like coming from cardadanoscan.io - you can check there yourself.

However, they got the blocks for this epoch because of the CF delegation, but with the original parameter configuration. IMO, they’ll get the full rewards in epoch 266, because donation was still there in epoch 264. But it’s only one epoch for them to rip off CF. Bad enough.

Sorry you are wrong with that assumption, by epoch 266 the delegation of Cardano Foundation is gone and in this epoch the new costs and new margin of 99% will take place the first time.

@jf3110 u must understand that they will not receive anything… only the 340 + margin + pledge reward

The big rewards for blocks go to CF as u can see bellow

image

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Happy to see that. Sometimes it’s good to be wrong about something. Haven’t looked at the active stake for epoch 266

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I’m almost sure the document is “design specification for delegation and incentives in Cardano” but I can’t point you to the right place in the doc because it is extensive.

I don’t agree with your proposal.
A pledge of one million ADA is worth 3,6 million EURO. How do you like to support decentralization? Don’t you think that it would be great to get new pools on board?

I don’t like the mentality of the CRO pool and would never ever do that. My partner and me are buying ADA every time we have a bit of cash left over and we didn’t mint a single block yet. But we will work as hard as possible (Jochen takes part in the plutus pioneer program, we are building up a NFT gallery with renowned artists Daniel & Geo Fuchs, we actually getting in touch with other small pools around the globe to find a solution that all pools start to at least cover their costs, we do marketing). And next to Cardano I have a job, which brings the money in our pool.

reading the following from you…

“1. Raise the minimum pledge in order to encourage cooperation between SPOs. One pool with a million pledge is better for the network than twenty with only 50’000.”

…leads to the following conclusions:

  1. you are a millionaire and have totally lost touch with the ground

  2. you have one or more pools that are running well and you don’t care about the rest of the community. Especially the newbies with their stupid questions are annoying you. Changes and competition are not wanted, because it is so comfortable right now :wink:

  3. you are a smart guy, who is enthusiastic about Cardano for a long time. You were able to invest very early, buy many ADAs quite cheaply and build up a pool with work. You are really pissed off at what CRO did and didn’t thought about the numbers in detail.

I wish you are the 3.!

Cardano will only continue to grow healthily if new, small pools like ours have a chance to play. And I count us among the rich and privileged unlike many young people in Africa.

I don’t like to be rude to you, but your approach will kill our and a lot of other pools directly.

Have a nice day & all the best,

Tim

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While I don’t share any of the conclusions you make, maybe I can offer some thoughts regarding your question.

By cooperation. Nothing requires a pool to have one investor with that much money, so people can actually pool their money and share the profits. Another option is to delegate to a pool.

Currently we have hundreds of SPOs that neither cooperate nor have enough pledge individually to sustain a pool. Many would clearly be better off just delegating their stake, yet they compete with each other by “marketing” their virtually identical pools in the hope of making profit from other people’s money.

That his can’t fly is easy to see.

Better to stake, being a pool operator will involve hard work, not just waiting for the block to be minted

Bloom forgets to pay back their delegators fee when leaving their pool. BigPey/Bloompool is a legit scammer and begger, so i left his pool. I believe he has 10 pools now.

Bloom forgets to pay back their delegators fee when leaving their pool. BigPey/Bloompool is a legit scammer and begger, so i left his pool. I believe he has 10 pools now.

Sorry but thats not true. The protocol itself distributes the rewards without the approval of the pool operator. So please be careful what you write!

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Join to my pool, check the stats on adapools.org

Thx

I am sure he deregistered the wallet and didn’t received the rewards for last epochs :thinking:

Hi @anon96829572 ,

Just saw your post stating:

Bloom forgets to pay back their delegators fee when leaving their pool. BigPey/Bloompool is a legit scammer and begger…

I left one of his his pools a couple of months ago (BLOOM 4) - everything went smoothly. I left his pool for a Mission Driven (charity) pool.

I watch Bloom’s YT channel semi-regularly and I must disagree with you!
I do not believe he is a “legit scammer and begger.” I do know that Cardano is his life - he does it full time. It would be a reasonable assumption that financial gain and stability is one of his top priorities. I know my attitude would be different if I had ‘everything riding on it.’

I believe it is because Bloom is so invested and dedicated to Cardano that he may be a little more “persuasive/passionate” than some. According to his videos, he has no plans on leaving Cardano and he is currently experimenting with Bloom Tokens.

I also know, Bloom does not focus on the price of Cardano in his videos (unless it hits ATH) - and that is what shows me that he truly cares about the project. He tries to keep the attitude and tone behind Charles’ vision - he has mentioned that he as spoken to Charles directly before in the past.

Sure, Bloom will have “growing pains” and “learning lessons.” And it is human nature to want to grow and expand your identity, brand, or company. 10 pools is many, but what else is he supposed to do with his success?

I’m not trying to be a “white-knight.” I am just sharing my perception of Bloom and how I do not believe he is a scammer or begger.

Finally, I apologize for this response: “scammer and begger” struck a nerve with me because I can see Bloom’s passion. Thank You.

Hi Waldmops,

you are possible not the right guy to motivate people to support Cardano and built up a pool. But I understand, as you have 3 pools, you have your “monkeys already in the dry”.

My points are still:

  • Decentralization is important. One pool per owner would be better.
  • new Cardano pools are important for Cardano to grow. The framework to open a pool is actually nice and there are many helping hands

You have your pools running and you do well! Congratulation! No bad feelings on my side, I have respect for your work.

We work hard to make our pool grow as well, and it works! We just got in 140K more and this week more to follow.

We are in contact with big charity organisations which I worked with before. We will get support from them too.

We will have a first NFT drop (not another copy of a copy of of Spacebudz) before smart contracts.

My partner is in the PLUTUS PIONEER program. And yes we both have 10 hour daily jobs and our free time is “Cardano time”.

All my life, as owner or C-level of a company, I always motivated people and tried to help them. I’m sorry that you don’t like to support more people to run a pool on Cardano, as this will secure Cardano.

Each one teach one! …think about it!

All the best from Germany!

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Thank you for the feedback. However, I would like to correct some of your assumptions that don’t seem quite right.

Supporting Cardano can be done in many ways and starting a pool is but one of them. Delegating to a pool is another. It is not my business and not my goal to motivate people to do either because motivation can only come from within, not from others.

I don’t share this view. It doesn’t make the slightest difference how many pools someone runs. Nobody would be better off if I ran only one pool and it doesn’t hurt anybody that I run three. The first pool, WMOPS, I created solely to stake my own funds. I set the fee to 340/0% because I didn’t want to make money on delegators and I made no publicity other than one post in this forum to introduce it. Delegators came nevertheless and I ended up slightly increasing the fees in order to avoid saturation.

Later I created three other pools, two of which are retired by now, just to see how different fee choices would influence their popularity. Still no marketing, not even an introduction. Still the funds staked were my own, so I ended up paying all fees to myself, at least initially.

My lesson learned from this experiment: Fees don’t make that much difference and Pledge matters greatly. People choosing a pool to delegate value pools with pledge.

Finally I made the LEAKS pool to raise money for a charity that is important to me and I wanted that separated from my other activities. The pool has donated more than 10’000 EUR already, almost all of it owing to the pledge I put in it.

By now you will maybe understand why I can’t confirm that conclusion of yours either. Even if we restrict “community” to include just Cardano stakeholders (which I believe is what you meant), we can observe that more than 1000 ADA holders have found reasons to delegate with one of the pools I run. Since I don’t waste any effort on “marketing”, I’m very confident that the reasons people have for delegating either have something to do with objective criteria (pledge, fees) or with the (sometimes controversial) views I express here in this forum and elsewhere.

I wish you success with that. Please be aware that ultimately it is not you who grows the pool, it is others who choose to stake with it.