What is Cardano's Purpose?

They probably are to some extent. Why not to a greater extent? No doubt some are genuine believers who would be holding regardless of current price, while the rest will be waiting to see how high it goes… not very mysterious, really…

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Some are, which is what is fueling the exchange markets, but I suspect many others are looking at BTC as the precedent, which generated multi-million-percent returns for many early BTC HODLers. The probability that ADA will ever reach BTC levels is nearly zero, but BTC’s growth rate is an emotionally intoxicating dream, which probably has a significant influence on their decision-making process.

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Probably doesn’t matter, but just for the record, the quote is misattributed, I was quoting @MARTIN_SMITH!

Let’s go back to the day when the first crypto currency, Bitcoin, was born. What was the purpose for its creation? decentralization. If an entity of small number of people can influence and control the fate and value of a currency, then it’s NOT a crypto currency. You can call it however you want - encrypted coins, xxxCash, but it’s not a crypto currency. This is why banks and governments fail miserably every time they come up with their own of crypto money. If the fate of Cardano is not in the hands of its community but rather in the hands of wales, we may see CardanoCash in the near future.

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This is all very interesting. Real shame they didn’t spread it wider at the start. Maybe they couldn’t, don’t know who was driving it. Setup is atypical, crypto innovation is mainly US right, but this chain is owned by Japan. Do they have a lot of people “doing” this kind of stuff over there?

@RobJF - If I was sitting on a 39,000% profit I would sell half on the spot. LOL. Maybe that’s just me. Current price is 0.33$, which is almost what I got in at. I’m actually up 0.01$. Step aside Warren Buffet.

A hard fork, pffff, disaster. But it’s true, you can see how communities split, always thought it was petty before, but yea… All the money and expertise are vested in CF. I guess in this ICO mad world someone well known could get the money, but the expertise, not so much. Perhaps it would be possible to hard fork Charles Hoskinson, you know, clone him using CRISPR gene editing or something. Tweak him for better jokes when public speaking. We can store the gene sequences in github.

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I don’t disregard anybody. In fact, I’ve taken a tremendous amount of time to understand all the people participating in this community–based on the forum stats, at least 20 times more than you. And why would I do that? Because I care deeply about this project, its future, and our community, obviously. So, it’s a bit premature to start judging me with such harsh accusations based on one post.

When people start spouting “communism” (in the other thread) without knowing the history of communism and what drives people into communism in the first place (poorly designed economic systems that concentrate wealth in the hands of a few oligarchs); and when they ignore how my posts are intended to PREVENT the oppressive economic/political conditions that made communism so attractive to 100s of millions of people during the 20th Century . . . yes, I’m going to call them on it.

Nevertheless, I was very gentle with my words compared to the level of personal attacks that I’ve received from a few people over the past couple days.

We can all be skeptical of whatever we want, but context matters. No reasonable person could read through my posts on this forum and believe I don’t have the deepest possible concern and appreciation for this project/community. So, either you just fired off a post without considering the context or you’re affiliated with the whales and trolling. Regardless, it doesn’t change the reality of my commitment to the long-term sustainability of this community.

Another good first principle is to carefully read somebody’s words before accusing them of things that they never even said. Nowhere in my words did I suggest to steal anything from anybody.

This is not intended as an insult, but your comments seem to follow from a deep immersion in Ayn Rand. I bet we could trace your economics education straight to her. Her ideas can be intoxicating. In fact, I devoured everything she wrote, which made me sound just like you as a young Libertarian. Then I learned about the actual economic history of our planet and how incomplete Objectivism is as an economic governance philosophy.

Thank you for at least considering this possibility. Yes, I believe you have deeply misunderstood my position and my suggestions, but it’s clear that you place a higher priority on investors making unlimited profits over achieving a sustainable ecosystem. There are much more sustainable ways to launch a new blockchain project and it’s OK for people to have a different opinion than you about how to achieve that goal. Insinuating that I don’t have principles and I’m a thief and a closet communist is counterproductive at best. Actually, it’s disgusting, but I’ll chalk it up to a simple misunderstanding.

In fact, I said we would need the support of the whales several times in the whale debate thread. So, it’s clear you didn’t read my first post in the whale debate, which I said was important at the very beginning and at several points throughout my first post in this thread.

Another good first principle: Give people the benefit of the doubt until you have spent enough time to truly understand their point of view.

We both agree on this. I can see you’re a thoughtful person; so, I don’t wish for us to be ideological rivals here. We both want Cardano to be successful. I simply want us to do everything humanly possible to learn the important lessons from history so that we can build a sustainable ecosystem together. If we can both agree on that, then we can ratchet down the negative energy here and just focus on the substance and mechanics of how to accomplish our shared goals from this point forward.

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biggest mistakes as in biggest failures come from societies where wealth is distributed unevenly and we see huge inequality (from Brasil to Russia, all across Asia maybe)… and the status quo will not change anytime soon!

so the to a sustainable ecosystem we need for Cardano implies - Equal chances for anyone to take advantage of Ada - I would argue anyone can setup an binance acc an get Ada now and stake it when its available, and earn 10% a year - for a lot of ppl this could be the only retirement plan they can get.

I know very good what communism, you make so many false assumptions. I called on you being a commie cos of your obvious anti-elite views… my grandparents were murderd cos they had to much land - you wanna do the same thing… unite the loosers and overthrow the NATURAL way - 1 ada = 1 stakeholder power . that’s it!

cardano is first of all and most of all Software - I think you smoke smth and make this long posts

Using the Gini Index as a measure, it can be seen that the wealth distribution in the United States of America is more unevenly distributed than Russia, Thailand, Philippines, Japan, Vietnam, Nepal and more than 100 other countries.

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html

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are you sure its not 340% gain? … and that not considering what btc did on its own

.025 yen in to 8.5

.025 * 340 = 8.5 proof reverse proof

didnt btc move over 340% on its march to 20k?

besides cost to carry and missed opportunity

@ThinkTank To convert to a % you need to multiply by 100.

I am glad you wrote this before I posted in the whales thread :wink:

I very much am glad to see someone outside of th CF putting time into Cardano and seeking for community input.
I have little time to think in depth about the highly complicated issue’s and if I did put thought into it further than why I adopted Cardano I would most likely make a full circle and come back to where I started as my views are my own born of experience and not creative writing nor other’s history so I am glad to see you go back and forth with @Adafans_io so that I can get two opinions to draw from with some experience to back it up.
I can agree with your points made here and would add I think a fork could be the only option for my staking vote to hold any weight if the initial distribution was in any way skewed and targeted to specific investor’s with a specific mindset.
The issue’s you raise as potential problem’s are actually issue’s that Cardano was designed to overcome, and I believe the developer’s made their best efforts professionally to produce a decentralized blockchain thinking at the time that it was a fair distribution, yet I read that the vouchers sold were “Almost 10,000” Cardano | Home , without clear information of the who the distribution was offered to than I absolutely can support a fork as I could imagine that if the distribution was skewed to specific geologic populations with a specific mindset and 200 investors feel the same as I do about Cardano than they would have been picking it up every time they had a chance and it could be possible that my vote could never hold weight when aligned against a contrasting ideology assuming those 200 people who kept buying many times over could be aligned against my personal views and are the majority of the Whales - I could never force the Whales to liquidate as I feel they do own the voting rights on the chain they invested in and should retain those right’s, and so that raises some questions; would a fork be on chain with some resolution that would ask the Whales to agree to? Is the fork away from the Whales? How could distribution of Cardano be a global event to maximize the global participation? And many more questions could come up as other people contribute to their thoughts to the threads here.
I do wish i could clean this up for you all and hope your not all stickler’s when it comes to grammar :slight_smile:

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:smiley:

So the reason for the fork is ppl out there who have more ada then you, bought it before you and cheaper ? Other then havin more ada then you, did they do anything bad do cardano?

DEFINITION of ‘Hard Fork’ As it relates to blockchain technology, a hard fork (or sometimes hardfork) is a radical change to the protocol that makes previously invalid blocks/transactions valid (or vice-versa), and as such requires all nodes or users to upgrade to the latest version of the protocol software.

So you want to - “anihillate” ppl’s accounts - just cos they have more then you? This is just how soviets did in east-europe after WW2… confiscated ppl’s land and house if they had more then average… why do communists views similar to what you express still tolerated?
Even if you think that 100 ppl with 1 ada have or should have more power then 10 ppl with 100 ada - you are wrong! Fork and you will see how the bigger network (more ppl, more value, more tx, more mkctap) will be the one with those 10 ppl with 100 ada… thats how economic works you need whales to fight the whale fight

ICO price seems to be listed as: $0.0024 in places.
Lets do some quick math: 25,927,070,538 ADA / $62,993,614 = $0.002430 ICO price

So a few Percent Increase calculations using the $.0.002430 price:

  • RoI as of today ($.33): 13,480%
  • Bittrex first day trading price ($.05): 1,957%
  • ATH price ($1.26): 51,751%
  • ATL price ($.02): 723%

Quick stat: 1,721,150,231 ADA is held in wallets created before Oct 1, 2017 and has not moved (single transaction).

Resources:
Audit Summary
Monetary Policy
Genesis Block
Reddit Thread

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They didnt pay in USD! But in BTC. So we need to look at ada/btc price in 2015!


Here it is.

Now, go look at bittrex price of ada in satoshi in the first months - 200-500 sat as ICO :sunglasses:

So, imagine buying BTC for 1 mil usd in 2015

Where did you get these numbers from?

BTC in 2015 was around 300$

The chain is 99.9% Japanese owned. These guys bought in very cheap a long time ago. The distribution was narrow - small number of people owning very large amounts of coin.

These are the facts.

How you feel about the facts is something else.

Some people don’t like (as we can see on this thread). Some people won’t care. Some people might actually prefer it this way.

I’m not all that bothered personally. I have a few minor reservations; 1) imho there will be constant sell pressure for a long time, Cardano will have to demonstrate a lot of value for outsiders to take over these positions (well beyond shelly) 2) Not sure how easy or strategic it will be for Western projects / Western companies to use this chain 3) Western media unlikely to do any favours for a foreign chain (conversely Asian media will).

As an investment I don’t think it matters all that much, provided you are going to hodl long term, it will be a slow burner for sure, if you want fast money, get into an ICO. If you want to use the chain for a project, then maybe it will matter, not sure.

Like I said, for me it’s all quite minor. Cardano has the best team and a huge budget. It’s gonna be a winner.

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I am in the exact state of mind as @Robert and Martin. I don’t care. I got in relatively early in october and I have to accept the fact that others with better knowledge invested at a better time and at a better place (Japan) during the 2015-2017 ICO. Period. You won’t hear me complaining about it, nor will I bother you with the degrees I hold :slight_smile: . We are still all insanely lucky to be here at those early stages.

I noticed that some kind of frustration related to the whale topic transpired from some posts, and it can be understandable up to a certain point. I personally find that mentioning a potential soft fork at such an early stage is laughable on a less than 5 months coin.

I hope that this frustration won’t pollute the discussion space for too long and that we can all get back to being civilised, discussing and debating about this community disrupting ideas and promising perspectives.

I will tell ya’ what the purpose is… it’s frikkin money!

(Some people tend to over think this stuff)

@CosmosX I appreciate that you and @Robert don’t care, but for those of us who do care (and there are many more who do care vs. don’t care), we have every right to make our voices heard. If you guys don’t care, and if Robert insists on interpreting my posts in the worst possible way, then please just ignore my posts from now on.

To be clear, there will be many more respectful posts until we get some clarity on how the team intends to resolve the hyper-concentration of wealth/power issue; or until we develop some meaningful solutions from within the community to present to the team. This is the way vibrant and passionate blockchain communities work, as I’m sure you know.

Anybody who has ever invested a lot in a public corporation knows that sometimes shareholder blocs get into good-faith debates over the management and direction of a company. However, I believe Cardano is at least an order of magnitude more important than any corporation. So, I certainly do care about its long-term sustainability and there are many others in this community who do, too. And every stakeholder has a right to fight for what they believe in.

One thing I don’t care about: The short-term price fluctuations of the ADA token. Specifically, I don’t care if it drops to $0 if that’s what it takes to help the team and whales understand that we need more transparency and more answers about specifically how they intend to reduce the concentration of wealth/power so that the ecosystem is not dominated by ADA oligarchs forever.

And, if after our best efforts, we don’t get satisfaction, then yes, of course, we should rationally consider forking, but nobody said that was an immediate decision that anybody would make. Forking is an extremely painful process; so, the whole point of my posts and discussion is to try to come up with solutions to these problems long before anybody feels like a hard-fork is truly necessary.

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