What is Cardano's Purpose?


#1

This is an important separate topic inspired by the ongoing debate in Will the ADA Whales Ever Give Up Their Power? (Please respect the distinction between these two topics and post in the correct threads to keep our discussions as focused as possible.)

Cardano’s Purpose. Somebody in our community recently said that early investors in Cardano deserve to control the ecosystem because they invested first and took early risks. That would be true if we were talking about a for-profit corporation like Apple or Goldman Sachs, but that’s not how Charles/team are presenting Cardano to the world. Cardano is not intended by anybody on the founding team to be a for-profit corporation; it’s intended to be a trust-less socioeconomic platform and crypto-economy for humanity, upon which many smart-contract-based socioeconomic tools and institutions can be built. Charles has described this in many ways in many interviews. That’s why I’ve invested in Cardano/ADA; profit considerations are purely secondary to that primary purpose.

Lucky Birth & Geography Should Not Create a Cardano Aristocracy. Every violent revolution in human history has been caused by oppressed people rising up against the tyranny of inherited, concentrated aristocratic wealth and power. That tyranny is always rooted in poorly designed economic systems and incentive structures. If we assume that it’s OK to accept a despotic level of economic/political control over the Cardano ecosystem (over the long-run) simply because the early investors were born in the right place at the right time, then we are ignorant of history and ignorant of the inevitable catastrophic consequences of oligarchic/aristocratic domination of an economy.

Prioritizing Purpose Over Profit Does Not Eliminate Profit. I am a capitalist, an investor, a corporate executive in the FinTech industry, a published book author in the field of International Political Economy, among other things that give me “capitalist street cred,” but I also understand how to distinguish between profit and purpose, just like Adam Smith did. So, of course I understand that investors in any project should receive a positive return on their investment, but that’s not the primary purpose of Cardano; and we can be certain the early investors know that. But let’s define “profit” here to make sure everybody can see just how “communist” we are for daring to prioritize purpose over profit. . . .

How Much Profit Have the Whales Already Received? Let’s do the math:

Price Paid in 1st Voucher Tranche: 1 Yen per 9.7 ADA
Average Price Paid Across all Tranches: 1 Yen per 8.5 ADA
JPY/ADA Price Today (2/22/2018): 1 Yen per 0.025 ADA
Voucher Tranche 1 Profit: 39,000%
Avg Profit Across All Voucher Tranches: 34,000%

And if we performed these calculations in early January during ADA’s peak prices, the profits would be ~3x higher.

Connecting Reality to Purpose. Given the following facts . . .

  • The primary purpose of Cardano is to build a trust-less socioeconomic platform for humanity.

  • The primary purpose (by definition) of every project should be given a higher priority than all other factors.

  • The whales have already received at least 34,000% profit (unrealized); and some have received over 100,000%, depending on when and how much ADA they’ve already sold. That’s already more profit than most investors ever get in their wildest dreams.

Are We Being “Communist” or Threatening the Sanctity of Capitalism? Is anybody in this community going to claim that capitalism is being threatened because many of us in the community want the team to prioritize the purpose of Cardano above profit motives? Is anybody in this community going to claim that investors are being injured merely because we want to gradually reduce the concentration of wealth/power of the whales over a gradual period of time after they’ve already received at least a 34,000% profit (as of this moment), which will most certainly exceed 1,000,000% profit by the time they actually liquidate their ADA positions according to the rational framework I’ve described in my original whales post?

Do We All Understand Economic History & the Fundamental Purpose of Cardano? If anybody in this community still believes that the whale debate is about communism vs. capitalism or thinks that the threats I described in that thread are unrealistic or over-exaggerated in any way, then they have never actually read Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations or his Theory of Moral Sentiments (or any other serious economist), they know nothing about economic history, and they have no meaningful understanding of the catastrophic consequences of allowing an oligarchy to own and/or control an entire economy.

Some People Lack the Knowledge and Experience to See and Understand Certain Risks, But That Doesn’t Mean Those Risks Don’t Exist. There are a couple humans (I assume they’re humans, but they act more like trolls.) in the whales debate thread who insist on over-simplifying and ignoring all the risks described in that thread. When they do this, they reveal more about their age, education, and experience than they do about the actual risks they are naively ignoring. I’m sparing them the embarrassment of calling them out by name, but hopefully they will spend more time studying economic history than making false accusations and unsubstantiated comments from this point forward.

This is Not About Communism vs. Capitalism. As always, my intention is never to offend anybody, but some of the responses I’ve seen in the other thread about “communism” and other pseudo-economic nonsense reflects a deep misunderstanding of economics and economic history. My degree is in International Political Economy and my professional background is in FinTech, cryptological linguistics, commodities trading, and software engineering. I would not be here discussing these principles today if I did not have a strong academic, technical, and real-world professional understanding of the risks and opportunities that we face as a community today.

Reviewing Our Goals as a Community. In life and in business, whenever we establish priorities about how to spend our scarce time and resources, we must make trade-offs based on the goals we want to achieve. IMHO, the highest priority and primary goal should be to earn and preserve the trust of every human on Earth today who is evaluating Cardano’s actual level of wealth/power/network decentralization, which is why I created the whale thread. Why should that be our highest priority (excluding the obvious technical priorities)? Because every serious student/scholar of Political Economy knows that the ADA economy is doomed over the long-run if it is controlled by a relatively small number of whales that can control all the decision-making processes. Anybody who does not grasp these realities is either focused on short-term speculation or they have no meaningful economic/geopolitical education.

What Do You Think Cardano’s True Purpose Is? Do you agree with my points here or do you have a different perspective? I think this is one of the most interesting and important topics that our community can discuss because our perception of Cardano’s purpose will determine whether we will stay together as a community or fork off into different communities later. Forking early is much easier than forking later; so, there are good practical reasons to start this discussion now. I look forward to all your thoughtful contributions.


We Are Trapped in a Bubble
A Solution to the ADA Whale Fears
Will ADA Whales Ever Give Up Their Power?
Will ADA Whales Ever Give Up Their Power?
Will ADA Whales Ever Give Up Their Power?
#2

I agree with your points.

I was drawn to this project by its substance and potential to be a cryptocurrency leader.
Of course making a profit is also a goal of mine. I figure that if the substance is delivered, maintained and evolves over time then the profit will be there.


#3

@TheViking Yes! One of the mantras I always share with employees when I’m training sales teams in the companies I’ve been involved with over the years is this:

“Don’t focus on the money. Focus on improving the quality of people’s lives and the money will come.”

So, I couldn’t agree with you more.


#4

39,000% wow. :no_mouth:


#5

I agree with your points.

Before we talk about forking, we must get a response from the Cardano Team.


#6

@Jam35x Agreed. We’re a long way from any forking actions, but it’s easy to see from other projects (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple, etc.) how forks occur when communities can’t agree on the fundamental purpose of their blockchains. So, this thread is intended as an early experiment, which will give us some interesting insight into the probability of Cardano forks in the future.


#7

Nope!
Cardano is an open source protocol (software) that has a token - if you think it’s value will rise you can buy it. You always seem this - the network is decentralized! So its a decentralized software that you can use if you want - no one is forcing you! It has no power to make you use it. You opt-it voluntarily and by it you accept the “terms and rules” of the network - sure they (rules) can evolve (change) over time… The purpose is described here - https://whycardano.com/

Nope - the primary purpose is to build a secure ledger (blockchain POS protocol) and Smart Contracts (IELE) the second one would be to make 3 -5 bil ppl use this ledger and SM

You sta

u r making all the wrong math!!!
only under 46% paid in JPY, over 56% paid in BTC! and they had their money “locked” from 2015 until listing on exchanges last on (oct) 2017

pls show me the 100 000 profit calcs :joy:


#8

Don’t want to waylay the thread, but if these investors are sitting on 39,000% profits, why aren’t they cashing out some of that? or are they?


#9

They probably are to some extent. Why not to a greater extent? No doubt some are genuine believers who would be holding regardless of current price, while the rest will be waiting to see how high it goes… not very mysterious, really…


#10

Some are, which is what is fueling the exchange markets, but I suspect many others are looking at BTC as the precedent, which generated multi-million-percent returns for many early BTC HODLers. The probability that ADA will ever reach BTC levels is nearly zero, but BTC’s growth rate is an emotionally intoxicating dream, which probably has a significant influence on their decision-making process.


#11

Probably doesn’t matter, but just for the record, the quote is misattributed, I was quoting @MARTIN_SMITH!


#12

Let’s go back to the day when the first crypto currency, Bitcoin, was born. What was the purpose for its creation? decentralization. If an entity of small number of people can influence and control the fate and value of a currency, then it’s NOT a crypto currency. You can call it however you want - encrypted coins, xxxCash, but it’s not a crypto currency. This is why banks and governments fail miserably every time they come up with their own of crypto money. If the fate of Cardano is not in the hands of its community but rather in the hands of wales, we may see CardanoCash in the near future.


#13

This is all very interesting. Real shame they didn’t spread it wider at the start. Maybe they couldn’t, don’t know who was driving it. Setup is atypical, crypto innovation is mainly US right, but this chain is owned by Japan. Do they have a lot of people “doing” this kind of stuff over there?

@RobJF - If I was sitting on a 39,000% profit I would sell half on the spot. LOL. Maybe that’s just me. Current price is 0.33$, which is almost what I got in at. I’m actually up 0.01$. Step aside Warren Buffet.

A hard fork, pffff, disaster. But it’s true, you can see how communities split, always thought it was petty before, but yea… All the money and expertise are vested in CF. I guess in this ICO mad world someone well known could get the money, but the expertise, not so much. Perhaps it would be possible to hard fork Charles Hoskinson, you know, clone him using CRISPR gene editing or something. Tweak him for better jokes when public speaking. We can store the gene sequences in github.


#14

I suppose I have two quick points I’d like to mention. If you are going to tout that your point is valid and disregard other’s opinions as pseudo-economic nonsense because of an appeal to authority:

My degree is in International Political Economy and my professional background is in FinTech, cryptological linguistics, commodities trading, and software engineering.

then I become completely and utterly skeptical of your viewpoint no matter if I agree with it or not. Frankly it makes me question your intent, though at the same time it’s hard to say what your intent is other than holding to your beliefs. And at the very least I would actually want your name to verify that you aren’t just blowing smoke.

And secondly

Is anybody in this community going to claim that investors are being injured merely because we want to gradually reduce the concentration of wealth/power of the whales over a gradual period of time after they’ve already received at least a 34,000% profit (as of this moment), which will most certainly exceed 1,000,000% profit by the…

Yes, some of us hold to such things as first principles which lay the bed-work of ethics. If your intent is to take someone’s wealth after-the-fact, without their consent, then yes, what you are doing is theft and an act of aggression, and is thus injuring the individual. You may follow a poorly thought out version of utilitarianism which can reason it’s way into thinking such a conjecture is fine, however the reality is that all value judgments are subjective and no objective calculus can be formed to try and make normative claims that it is fine because the whales have earned so much and the money will be put to better use otherwise. Theft is theft.

If however I’m not understanding your position on how to move forward properly, then my bad. If you are interested in making this a point and then working to create a community effort to distribute the holdings with the consent of the whales, then great, I’ll support you. Or even starting a fork and changing the distribution, whatever floats your boat. And I do think it’s a valid question/discussion to talk about liquid democracy & distribution (which I have my own doubts/questions about as a whole). But if you do wish to proceed by taking other people’s property because of your own subjective value judgments and premonitions for the future, then I’d probably recommend following another project who’s founder is more of the likes of Ripple rather than one who was a serious Ron Paul supporter. Principles matter, and that is one of the reasons why I got into Cardano in the first place.


#15

I don’t disregard anybody. In fact, I’ve taken a tremendous amount of time to understand all the people participating in this community–based on the forum stats, at least 20 times more than you. And why would I do that? Because I care deeply about this project, its future, and our community, obviously. So, it’s a bit premature to start judging me with such harsh accusations based on one post.

When people start spouting “communism” (in the other thread) without knowing the history of communism and what drives people into communism in the first place (poorly designed economic systems that concentrate wealth in the hands of a few oligarchs); and when they ignore how my posts are intended to PREVENT the oppressive economic/political conditions that made communism so attractive to 100s of millions of people during the 20th Century . . . yes, I’m going to call them on it.

Nevertheless, I was very gentle with my words compared to the level of personal attacks that I’ve received from a few people over the past couple days.

We can all be skeptical of whatever we want, but context matters. No reasonable person could read through my posts on this forum and believe I don’t have the deepest possible concern and appreciation for this project/community. So, either you just fired off a post without considering the context or you’re affiliated with the whales and trolling. Regardless, it doesn’t change the reality of my commitment to the long-term sustainability of this community.

Another good first principle is to carefully read somebody’s words before accusing them of things that they never even said. Nowhere in my words did I suggest to steal anything from anybody.

This is not intended as an insult, but your comments seem to follow from a deep immersion in Ayn Rand. I bet we could trace your economics education straight to her. Her ideas can be intoxicating. In fact, I devoured everything she wrote, which made me sound just like you as a young Libertarian. Then I learned about the actual economic history of our planet and how incomplete Objectivism is as an economic governance philosophy.

Thank you for at least considering this possibility. Yes, I believe you have deeply misunderstood my position and my suggestions, but it’s clear that you place a higher priority on investors making unlimited profits over achieving a sustainable ecosystem. There are much more sustainable ways to launch a new blockchain project and it’s OK for people to have a different opinion than you about how to achieve that goal. Insinuating that I don’t have principles and I’m a thief and a closet communist is counterproductive at best. Actually, it’s disgusting, but I’ll chalk it up to a simple misunderstanding.

In fact, I said we would need the support of the whales several times in the whale debate thread. So, it’s clear you didn’t read my first post in the whale debate, which I said was important at the very beginning and at several points throughout my first post in this thread.

Another good first principle: Give people the benefit of the doubt until you have spent enough time to truly understand their point of view.

We both agree on this. I can see you’re a thoughtful person; so, I don’t wish for us to be ideological rivals here. We both want Cardano to be successful. I simply want us to do everything humanly possible to learn the important lessons from history so that we can build a sustainable ecosystem together. If we can both agree on that, then we can ratchet down the negative energy here and just focus on the substance and mechanics of how to accomplish our shared goals from this point forward.


#16

biggest mistakes as in biggest failures come from societies where wealth is distributed unevenly and we see huge inequality (from Brasil to Russia, all across Asia maybe)… and the status quo will not change anytime soon!

so the to a sustainable ecosystem we need for Cardano implies - Equal chances for anyone to take advantage of Ada - I would argue anyone can setup an binance acc an get Ada now and stake it when its available, and earn 10% a year - for a lot of ppl this could be the only retirement plan they can get.

I know very good what communism, you make so many false assumptions. I called on you being a commie cos of your obvious anti-elite views… my grandparents were murderd cos they had to much land - you wanna do the same thing… unite the loosers and overthrow the NATURAL way - 1 ada = 1 stakeholder power . that’s it!

cardano is first of all and most of all Software - I think you smoke smth and make this long posts


#17

Using the Gini Index as a measure, it can be seen that the wealth distribution in the United States of America is more unevenly distributed than Russia, Thailand, Philippines, Japan, Vietnam, Nepal and more than 100 other countries.

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html


#18

are you sure its not 340% gain? … and that not considering what btc did on its own

.025 yen in to 8.5

.025 * 340 = 8.5 proof reverse proof

didnt btc move over 340% on its march to 20k?

besides cost to carry and missed opportunity


#19

@ThinkTank To convert to a % you need to multiply by 100.


#20

I am glad you wrote this before I posted in the whales thread :wink:

I very much am glad to see someone outside of th CF putting time into Cardano and seeking for community input.
I have little time to think in depth about the highly complicated issue’s and if I did put thought into it further than why I adopted Cardano I would most likely make a full circle and come back to where I started as my views are my own born of experience and not creative writing nor other’s history so I am glad to see you go back and forth with @Adafans_io so that I can get two opinions to draw from with some experience to back it up.
I can agree with your points made here and would add I think a fork could be the only option for my staking vote to hold any weight if the initial distribution was in any way skewed and targeted to specific investor’s with a specific mindset.
The issue’s you raise as potential problem’s are actually issue’s that Cardano was designed to overcome, and I believe the developer’s made their best efforts professionally to produce a decentralized blockchain thinking at the time that it was a fair distribution, yet I read that the vouchers sold were “Almost 10,000” https://www.cardanohub.org/en/genesis-block-distribution/ , without clear information of the who the distribution was offered to than I absolutely can support a fork as I could imagine that if the distribution was skewed to specific geologic populations with a specific mindset and 200 investors feel the same as I do about Cardano than they would have been picking it up every time they had a chance and it could be possible that my vote could never hold weight when aligned against a contrasting ideology assuming those 200 people who kept buying many times over could be aligned against my personal views and are the majority of the Whales - I could never force the Whales to liquidate as I feel they do own the voting rights on the chain they invested in and should retain those right’s, and so that raises some questions; would a fork be on chain with some resolution that would ask the Whales to agree to? Is the fork away from the Whales? How could distribution of Cardano be a global event to maximize the global participation? And many more questions could come up as other people contribute to their thoughts to the threads here.
I do wish i could clean this up for you all and hope your not all stickler’s when it comes to grammar :slight_smile: