We Are Trapped in a Bubble

<<< This post was inspired by the ongoing debates in the Will ADA Whales Ever Give Up Their Power? and What is Cardano’s Purpose? threads. Before jumping to any conclusions about this thread, please make sure you’re familiar with at least the first posts in those other threads to place this thread into proper context. If you don’t like reading, please, just ignore this post because it covers a lot of deep and potentially controversial topics that require substantial time and effort to appreciate. Many other people (including me) enjoy reading other people’s thoughtful ideas and suggestions and we don’t need to see a bunch of unnecessary negative comments and false accusations that don’t add any meaningful value to the discussion.>>>

Purpose of this Thread: Develop a meaningful understanding of the fundamental source of our ongoing debate. Since we all have a lot at stake, this is an important conversation. First, a couple brief foundational concepts. . . .

We Are All Trapped in a Tiny Perceptual Bubble. One of the most challenging aspects of building anything on a large scale is distinguishing between perception vs. reality. It’s difficult because, for the human brain, perception is reality. But human perception is not objective reality because every human brain is trapped in a tiny bubble. There are many fundamental reasons for this in physics, quantum physics, biology, ontology, metaphysics, spirituality, etc., all of which are beyond the scope of this post. However, at the level of human communities, the size of our perceptual bubble is determined by each person’s age, education, culture, birth era, and life experience.

The Bubbles of Children vs. Adults. We see this perceptual bubble phenomenon most dramatically when we compare the reasoning capacity of a child to an adult. In addition to obvious biological factors, the perceptual contrast between a child and an adult exists because the perceptual bubble of a child’s brain is significantly smaller than the perceptual bubble of an adult’s brain. Regardless, we are all trapped in a bubble; so, the key questions are: Do we recognize our bubbles and do we make a sincere effort to expand our bubbles? (BTW, I’m not calling anybody in this community “children.” So nobody needs to distort my words and jump to any more false accusations like they did in the other threads.)

Now on to the more specific socioeconomic and Cardano stuff. . . .

Is Unlimited Profit/Control for a Lucky Few a Higher Priority than a Sustainable Ecosystem? This question is the essence of the debate in the Will ADA Whales Ever Give Up Their Power? and What is Cardano’s Purpose? threads. Based on the overall feedback so far, there seems to be substantial community consensus on this issue: Sustainability is more important than unlimited profits/control for a few. (I said “community consensus,” not “whale consensus.” Obviously, the whales probably have a different perception at this moment.) Achieving community consensus is important, and generally it’s all that is necessary for a community to remain together within a truly democratic system. (Of course, we know now that Cardano will never be truly democratic based on the current ADA distribution, but let’s ignore that reality for a moment to stay focused on why we’re having this debate in the first place.)

Politics vs. Economics Is a False Dichotomy: The Birth of Political Economy. Succinctly, politics is the study of power/influence. Economics is the study of how scarce resources and value are distributed throughout a society, but the distribution decisions are based on human governments and laws that are controlled by human power/influence. Thus, economics and politics are inseparable. This is why the field of “Political Economy” was the original field that Adam Smith founded when he published his book, The Wealth of Nations, in 1776. In fact, classical liberals like Adam Smith, J.S. Mill, Locke, Hobbes, Montesquieu, and all the U.S. Founding Fathers never believed economics could be legitimately separated from politics. This is why “Political Economy” was the label generally used to describe all economic activity until 1890.

Politics vs. Economics Is a False Dichotomy: The Birth of Economics. The field of pure “Economics” came much later in the 19th Century when Alfred Marshall published his 1890 academic textbook, Principles of Economics. He published that textbook in response to corporations and politicians who wanted to start developing academic theories and models to justify the profit motives of corporations and nations (in particular, U.S. corporations and the USG). By design, all academic economic models and theories (including Mises’ “Theory of Money and Credit” and Keynes’ “General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money”) explicitly and structurally ignore the complexities of politics and human nature. This fundamentally distorts their models and all conclusions derived from their models.

Separating Economics from Politics Creates Many Socioeconomic Problems. The artificial and arbitrary separation between Economics and Politics was inconceivable to classical liberals like Adam Smith because they knew that they’re simply two sides of the same coin: There is no free-market economy without meaningful democratic governance, and there is no meaningful democratic governance without a sustainable economy that distributes value equitably throughout a society. (I did not say “equally.” There’s a huge difference.) Classical liberals understood that trying to separate economics from politics is like trying to separate hydrogen and oxygen atoms in H2O: It’s no longer life-giving water if you separate their components. So, why is this important? Because this artificial separation leads to many problems when governments, societies, and blockchain projects try to build equitable and sustainable economic systems based on Mises’ and/or Keynes’ academic theories.

Ideology vs. Reality. Another reason it’s very difficult to accomplish anything on a large scale is because many humans confuse ideology with reality, which often spawns a tribe mentality. In this context, the tribe mentally occurs because many people get confused and frustrated when they assume economics and politics are separate domains and/or they get overwhelmed by all the noise and propaganda from special interest groups and governments. When humans are confused/frustrated/overwhelmed, their emotions get triggered, which creates fears and insecurities, which creates an impulse to seek safety with a familiar tribe (Keynesians, Austrians, Marxists, Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, etc.). But the safety of their tribe is just a regression back into their comfortable bubble and a missed opportunity to expand their perception of reality, i.e., a missed opportunity to expand their bubble.

All Economic Ideologies Are on the Same Continuum of Political Economy. We see the tribe mentality constantly when people argue over capitalism vs. communism, democracy vs. authoritarianism, free markets vs. coordinated markets, purely free trade vs. import substitution industrialization (ISI), supply vs. demand, etc. They don’t understand that all these concepts are merely different points along the same continuum of Political Economy. Where a society, community, or country exists along that continuum depends on how their citizens/stakeholders prioritize ecosystem sustainability vs. unlimited power/profit for a few.

Maximizing Profit is Not Equal to Maximizing Human Welfare. A huge false assumption that virtually all mainstream/neoliberal economists have made since the late 1970s is that GDP is all that really matters. They claim that as long as a country’s GDP is growing, then all the wealth will magically “trickle down” to the masses and there will be “more winners than losers.” A few people in this community believe the same is true about the ADA economy: They claim that all the whale wealth will trickle down to the ADA masses when the whales start selling their ADA. There is no evidence that this process will ever lead to any meaningful decentralization of wealth/power throughout any economy (fiat or crypto). In fact, the evidence shows the exact opposite.

Increasing Gini Indexes & Stagnant Middle-Class Incomes Prove Trickle-Down Economics Is BS. Aggregate economic metrics like GDP (or ADA market cap) reveal nothing about how wealth/power is distributed throughout a society; and the distribution of wealth/power in every society is what determines the systemic health of every economy, including our ADA economy. This is why measuring the Gini Index and median income (not per-capita income) is so important. Measuring those factors, we can see that high Gini Indexes and completely flat and declining real income of the middle classes in nearly all rich countries today (while their GDP’s have exploded) proves that trickle-down economics is a fantasy. Yet, virtually all mainstream fiat/crypto economic theories and models are built on this fantasy today. Predictably, these are the same theories/models/fantasies that have transformed our global economy into the debt-choked, unstable, unsustainable, oligarchic, conflict-ridden system of corporate greed and injustice that it is today. Is this what we want for the ADA economy?

Pure Free Markets Are a Fantasy. Anybody who has ever been a lobbyist, politician, or senior corporate executive operating in a global market knows that pure free markets are a fantasy. Purely free markets only exist in the fantasies of Austrian School academics and Ayn Rand disciples, which included me when I was younger. Their free-market theories and models completely ignore real-world geopolitics and fallible human nature. They ignore the fact that there will always be government intervention (both in fiat economies and crypto economies) because all human-controlled systems tend to concentrate unsustainable wealth and power toward the class with the most political power (whales, oligarchs, politburo commissars, titans of industry, despots, etc.) unless there are even more powerful counter-balancing systemic forces and effective checks-and-balances engineered into the system to prevent the wealth/power of any particular special interest group from concentrating and overwhelming the decision-making processes of the system.

If Government Intervention is Inevitable, How Should Governments Intervene? Given that human governments will always intervene to skew the distribution of a society’s wealth toward the most politically connected creatures, the primary real-world question that we should ask is this: Will fiat/crypto governments intervene to amplify the economies of scale of the whales (e.g., transnational corporations in the fiat world and ADA whales here) or will fiat/crypto governments intervene to create ecosystem balance so that small- to medium-sized companies and the middle class can achieve a sustainable level of wealth and influence within the ecosystem? Notice I never said “equalize everybody”; so, anybody who accuses me of that nonsense from this point forward should be regarded as a bona fide ideologue (aka, a moronic zombie).

Unbridled Capitalism Is Not Equal to Human Liberty. Many Ayn Rand lovers (including me when I was younger) believe that true freedom comes from pure free markets. After many years of traveling and studying different economies, talking with political leaders in different countries, operating companies in different economic systems, dealing with corrupt tax and regulatory regimes that are engineered to benefit the largest transnational corporations . . . I realized that unbridled capitalism is not the same as human liberty. In fact, contrary to Ayn Rand’s and Hayek’s extremely narrow view of Political Economy, unbridled capitalism quickly destroys human liberty because every economy is inevitably distorted by government intervention, which always creates a systemic bias toward the most politically well-connected business groups in a society unless strong counter-balancing mechanisms are engineered into the system. (The Hayek/Rand/Libertarian pure free-market fantasy of an economy with no government intervention, which they believe would magically cure this vicious cycle, is a non-existent choice in the real world.)

Investor Capital Is Only One Form of Value. The dynamics above inevitably cause the wealth of a fiat/crypto economy to flow to the most politically connected group based on inherited aristocracy, luck of birth time/place, private voucher sale invitations, and many factors that have nothing to do with merit or the actual value they contribute to society. This is exactly what we already have in our ADA economy today with respect to the anonymous whales (it doesn’t have to be this way, see here), which is a huge problem because investor “capital” is only one of many forms of value that a society/economy should recognize and reward. But our ADA economy is already essentially being built on the same economic ideology that is destroying the global fiat economy. So, as a community, IMHO, we should lobby very hard to create numerous and specific structural mechanisms at the protocol level to diffuse the early staking wealth/power throughout the ADA economy based on many more factors than early investor/founder ADA (e.g., the Founder’s Stake ideas we discussed here).

Economic Freedom Is Not Equal to Business Freedom. Confusing business freedom with economic freedom inevitably destroys the economic and political freedom of the masses while it protects the business freedom of the oligarchic few. Then the oligarchs use their wealth/power generated from their business freedom to skew the distribution of wealth throughout the entire society back to themselves, which empowers them further to purchase biased politicians and laws that enable them to perpetuate their business and economic wealth/power over generations. Contrary to Ayn Rand’s fictional books that have no basis in economic reality, giving whales (transnational corporations or ADA whales here) the freedom to trample all over an economy is not “economic freedom”; that is “business/capital freedom”, which protects the business freedom of a few oligarchs while sacrificing the economic and political freedom of everybody else.

The Sad History of Wealth/Power Concentration. Everything I’ve posted over the past few days is obvious to anybody who has ever studied the economic history of the Gilded Age in the United States; the concentration of wealth/power in Nazi Germany and pre-WWII Italy; pre-Soviet tsarist Russia and post-soviet oligarchic Russia today; the despotic power in the GCC states since they discovered oil and natural gas; the long and sad history of economic oppression in virtually every Latin American and African country; the rapid concentration of wealth/power in China, which is more capitalistic than the U.S. now . . . and drumroll . . . the obscene concentration of wealth/power in the United States today, which has destroyed the U.S. economy and political system, which is pushing the world into an economic depression that will dwarf the Great Depression. Is this what we want for the ADA economy?

The Neurotoxin of Neoliberalism. No matter what we discuss and how much logic and evidence we present, some people probably won’t be able to escape their bubble and they will continue believing that ecosystem balance is tantamount to communism. I understand this because I felt the same way for years as a young libertarian. But I realized that this feeling does not occur naturally; it must be injected into us like a neurotoxin from corporate propaganda and a debased culture. In fact, this feeling was virtually nonexistent on Earth until the 1980s when the neoliberal trinity of Ayn Rand, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman were selected by Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to provide the economic ideology for their respective economic policies. Reagan/Thatcher did that because that’s what their corporate supporters wanted and because they truly believed in neoliberal economic theories.

The God of Shareholder Value is Born. The god of “shareholder value” was born from the marriage of neoliberal economics and the “greed is good” culture that it spawned on Wall Street in the 1980s. I have worked on Wall Street and in several other global banking centers for many years; so, I have direct experience with the “greed is good” culture. In fact, I’ve watched how corporate interests, led by Wall Street, have systematically exploited the idealism of Ayn Rand, Hayek, and libertarians in general to transform Libertarianism into the trojan horse of economically exploitative neoliberalism. Then neoliberalism itself has been exploited by governments as a vehicle of global economic imperialism. Before the 1980s, the idea that “shareholder value” trumps human welfare was a laughable abomination of rational corporate governance, trade, and labor policies.

Ideological Bubbles. Everybody, including me, is trapped in a bubble, but not everybody cares or has the desire to expand their bubble. I recognized that I was living in a Libertarian/neoliberal bubble after reading Ayn Rand, Mises, Friedrich Hayek (and the Austrian School in general), Milton Friedman, Murray Rothbard, Frederic Bastiat, etc. during the first half of my life. Many young people with a desire to understand economics gravitate to those authors because those authors tell us what we want to hear: “Government, leave me and our markets alone!” But without understanding the historical context in which all those authors were writing, and without understanding the true nature of Political Economy and how all economic markets are political creations, we are simply reinforcing our preexisting ideological bubbles, which are fabricated out of preexisting beliefs, which are amplified by subconscious emotions and tribal behavior.

Ideological Bubbles Lead to Conflict & War. Ideological bubbles are perceptual prisons of our own making. They prevent us from understanding other people, which prevents us from developing empathy. When humans lack empathy, they lack the ability to see the world from other perspectives, which prevents them from having meaningful conversations. When communication breaks down, animal instincts are triggered and humans resort to aggression and violence, which is why Clausewitz said, “War is politics by other means.” Thus, communication breakdowns are part of a vicious cycle of self-imposed perceptual bubbles, ideological rigidity, deficits of empathy, inter-personal blindness, communication breakdowns, conflict, war, self-imposed perceptual bubbles . . . ad infinitum.

How to Escape Ideological Bubbles? If we understand that ideological bubbles are created by perceptual bubbles, and perceptual bubbles are created because we are all trapped in a specific time, place, age, level of education, life experience, and culture, then we can rationally conclude that expanding our perceptual bubble is the only way to escape an ideological bubble. So how do we expand our perceptual bubble? The same way children expand their perceptual bubble: Constant learning and constant exposure to new ideas that challenge us to think beyond the prison of our existing bubble.

Our Political Economy Education. Reading a couple Ayn Rand books, Hayek’s Road to Serfdom, and a few articles at the Mises Institute website does not constitute a complete education in Political Economy. The world of Political Economy expands far beyond the tiny bubbles of Ayn Rand and Austrian School economics, which is why no serious economist has ever taken Ayn Rand seriously and nobody took Hayek seriously until Reagan/Thatcher gave him a corporate-funded platform in the late 1970s. (Ayn Rand knew very little about economics—she simply hated communism and cherry-picked ideas from Mises to make her books seem substantive.) And I’m not saying Hayek is wrong on everything (although my posts are primarily a response to the Rand/Hayek cheerleaders that have attacked me); I’m saying that the Austrian and the Keynesian Schools make many unrealistic assumptions in their theories and models, which leads to many problems when policymakers try to translate their academic theories into real-world socioeconomic policies.

We Should Not Be Slaves to Dead Economists. For all the reasons above and many more, IMHO, we should make our decisions based on our community’s primary purpose and our highest priorities, which is why I wrote the whale and Cardano purpose posts. We should not be slaves to dead economists who never imagined how artificial intelligence, robots, IoT, and incomprehensible concentrations of wealth/power would converge to create the deeply inequitable and unjust world that neoliberalism and the “god of shareholder value” have delivered to us today. “Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.” – J.M. Keynes (At least Keynes had enough humility and humor to not take himself too seriously. Here’s a hilarious video that illustrates this point.)

A.I. Will Amplify All the Problems We Have Today. A.I. is already amplifying the economic imbalances in all fiat economies and it will do the same thing in the ADA economy if very specific counter-balancing mechanisms are not implemented to gradually resist the economies of scale that occur in virtually every economic system. Perpetual economies of scale do not result in sustainable outcomes. In fact, the 10 largest corporations on Earth today already control more fiat-denominated economic resources than 92% of all countries on Earth combined. That outcome was not inevitable, but it is the inevitable consequence of neoliberal economic policies. So, unless we stop worshiping the god of shareholder value, stop listening to dead economists, and stop pretending Ayn Rand was a real economist, then our entire planet will be controlled by Amazon, Alibaba, ExxonMobil, China National Petroleum, Berkshire Hathaway, Volkswagen, Apple, and Microsoft. Is this what we want for the ADA economy?

We All Have a Choice in How We Interpret Information. I’m sure a couple people will attack me (again) for various reasons and they will say that I have no right to tell them anything. OK, attack me and ignore everything I say, but at the end of all their attacks and false accusations, the reality of our bubbles remains the same; and it’s the bubbles that create misunderstanding and conflict, not my words. So, if they truly care about this community and Cardano’s long-term sustainability, I hope those couple people who have attacked me will try to understand why a significant portion of our community believes that ecosystem sustainability is a much higher priority than unlimited profits/power for a tiny number of lucky whales who happened to be born in the right place at the right time. (No offense to the whales. I understand it’s not their fault, but it’s still an unresolved problem.) Those conditions might be tolerable for a for-profit corporation, but not for a global nonprofit socioeconomic platform and cryptocurrency for humanity.

Meaningful Awareness Comes from Substantive Education, Experience & Discussion. A couple people complained about me writing relatively more substantive posts. To those people: I understand most people get their information from Twitter and Facebook today. I’ve written entire books on these topics, but I only share a few paragraphs (a few pages in this case) with you here because I know everybody is busy and many people prefer to get their education from Twitter and Facebook. So, if you’re one of those people, feel free to completely ignore my posts and get your education from Twitter and Facebook. For the rest of our community, thank you very much for reading my posts, expressing your appreciation, and making this community so much fun. Your positive feedback helps to offset the negativity of the others and to keep our collective hope alive that we will be able to resolve these issues over time.

We All Have a Lot at Stake. So What Can We Do Now? In addition to the ideas discussed in the other threads, IMHO, we can all think creatively and post ideas about how various types of stakeholders and value streams throughout the ADA economy can be rewarded with ADA automatically by a future version of the Ouroboros protocol. I think the overall goal can be to find legitimate ways to reduce the concentration of wealth/power throughout the ADA economy to a Gini Index of below .40 within some reasonable period of time. Without that, ADA will never be a truly viable global cryptocurrency because its volatility will be way too high with whales thrashing around the entire ADA ecosystem, drowning out any possibility for real transactional commerce.


I was thinking in terms of solutions to our whale debate at the end of my post above, but here are a few interesting questions to think/post about if people just want to focus on the overall topic of this thread:

  • Has anybody had any experience dealing with people who were trapped in ideological / perceptual bubbles? How did you deal with them?

  • Has anybody ever said you were trapped in a bubble? Did you agree/disagree? And did you admit it?

It’s probably hard for many people to admit when they’re stuck in a bubble, even when they know deep down that they really are. This has happened to me when I’m debating certain people to whom I don’t want to show any weakness. In a public forum, it takes a lot of courage to admit when we’re wrong. I try to resist that feeling because I think we earn more respect from most people when we have the courage to admit we are wrong (and human).


With regards to the bubble that we live in, you’re right, we have our own point of view for it all. With regards to corporations controlling the wealth, who is to say that those names can’t change to decentralized names with voting powers established to the stakeholders?
With regards to stabilization: 20 years ago it was thought to be impossible to have a car with lane detection or autonomous driving. 15 years ago it was thought to be impossible to have rockets to be reusable. 5 years ago it was thought that PoS was impossible to get secured. Today you say that it is impossible to have a stable currency in crypto when I just watched a video with C.H. mentioning that they just funded a research department to figure this out and it should be solved in a year.

It was a really good speech about the developing world and I will post the link here in a little bit (but first I need to do my taxes)

Edit, they should have a lot more information on it in a year and an idea about how to solve it.

Yeah, good point. I saw that video, too. I hope they can do it! If they can, I will be happy to retract that comment because I would definitely rather have a stable ADA economy.

I simply dont have time to educate you in to the full extent of Austrian economics, Ive read a bunch of your post, and you get a lot of things - but with many things you just drop the ball. Here is the deal, in a free-market where transactions are done voluntarily (without force, like government interference, regulations, corruption etc.) wealth is created out of thin air. It is not a fixed amount that is “distributed” and when one gets richer, another gets poorer. Hence why wealth distribution is immaterial, as long as it was created under voluntary conditions.

Lets assume gold was our money. If one guy was sitting upon 90% of it, would it be a problem? NO. Because MONEY is a claimcheck to wealth, to get something in return.

Lets assume we have a 3 person economy - Person A, B, C. They all each have 10 pieces of gold. Person A is a chair maker, Person B is a baker, and Person C is a fisherman.

Person B and C each day have one excess fish and one bread, since the demand/supply and the value of their work they have priced it at 2 Gold piece (to keep it all simple) every day they sell their product to each other for 2 gold, and buy one of each others product, their excess supply after expenses and feeding themselves is only 1 fish and 1 bread.

Now person A makes a chair - He wants 9 Gold for this chair, both B and C wants this chair. They buy it voluntarily since they want the chair more than they want the 9 gold, and the chairmaker wants the gold more than he wants the chair which means everybody wins. Now the chairmaker has 26 Gold pieces, the 16 gold he got was not value? Person B and C got the chairs right, but the chair maker didn’t get anything back, he got the GOLD, which is a CLAIMCHECK to get something back, money is just a intermediary. As it is right now the Baker and Fisherman got the chairs for free, since they didn’t give anything back.

A = 28 Gold pieces, b = 1, C = 1

Person A is NOT sitting on the majority of wealth because the CHAIRS have been added to the economy, and person B + C valued it at more than what they gave. So B and C has the chair (which is value)

So what does person B and C now do? Since the Baker and Fisherman priced the item at 2 Gold, the pricing mechanism was based on supply and demand. Lets first say the chair-maker will just sit on the money. Now the Fisherman and The baker dont have 2 Gold to buy anything. The laws of Supply and Demand taking 90% of the money supply away, would automatically dictate a new price of 0.2 Gold.

Right now, Person B and C has got a free chair, since they haven’t paid for it yet (The gold was not a final payment, they gold was a claim-check to get something back, no fish or bread was given) So if the chair-maker just threw his gold away, the only loser here is the chair maker. Now lets say he start buying up Fish and Bread, well the supply is only 1 from each, but he will only be able to get about 5 Fish and 5 Bread, since demand/supply will put prices back in place - and the chair-maker will ultimately end up with the amount that the Fisherman and Baker already valued it at. The market is not completely efficient and some inefficiencies occur but on a broad basis you get complete efficiency.

and just as a disclaimer, it is not just a claim-check (that would be fiat or concurrency) Gold is actual money, it has intrinsic value and it is already paid for in value of Gold itself, intrinsic in acquiring it, and for uses. Which is real resources, especially gold is historically the best money.

If someone has 1 billion USD in a free economy, and it was not created by gov interference or scaming. Then then guy with the 1 Billion USD is the sucker, he gave away 1 billion USD of value, but has not got anything in return for it. the 1 billion is a CLAIMCHECK to get 1 billion worth of stuff BACK, he gave 1 billion USD of productivity into the economy and holding USD backed by nothing it is ONLY a claim-check, it has no inherent value in itself. So someone who owns a lot of USD does not hold any wealth, he gave that wealth away, he only sits on claim-checks to get something back for the effort nothing was taken.

The ONLY aspect of the capitalism that is not fair, is land ownership and the resources on it - but that is only a small aspect of the economy, and yes Its just something we have to live with. Those who first got ownership of first land and Its resources on it, got an advantage, and that advantage will carry on into many many generations. But Its a small price to pay for the rest of us. If you own the an unequal size of land due to land being limited you can squeeze people unfairly, cause no one can create land out of thin air and compete with you. But I am OK with this, since its a small aspect of the economy, and it will become smaller and smaller, since most value today is not in land and physical resources. Most people work in the information sector. Accumulating land is such a hard thing to accomplish that the chances of it being detrimental to the system as a whole (systemic risk) is so unlikely that its worth sticking to the overall principle. Also and with people colonizing planets etc. this systemic risk will eventually complete dissipate in the future as land will be plentiful (competition)

If ADA makes early holders rich, do you know where this wealth comes from? It does not come from ADA holders, it is a wealth transfer from whatever was used as money before. Lets assume the ADA was to replace the USD. Then ADA would gain in value of what the USD lost - Its just a wealth transfer and only affects the ones on the losing end of that wealth transfer. It does not affect anyone using ADA now or in the future in any way.

A malicious takeover of the network is the only “threat” that should be considered, I’ve looked at the number of so called whales you are talking about and it is dramatically exaggerated and this will over time become less and less concentrated - but even as it stands now it would take a huge huge collusion effort to takeover the network, EVEN AS IT IS NOW, you would have to collectively track down so many people and bring them on your plan, which is completely unlikely to ever happen as most will have good intentions toward the integrity oft he network. But this is How crypto works lol nothing you can do about it and its fear mongering making an issue of it. Anyone can accumulate ADA and its all anonymous for the most part.

Inequality in a economy is a great and necessary thing, we want to the most amount of resources in the fewest hands since only a small percentile of the population has the skills to put these resources to use - and this will naturally occur in a free market economy, money flows with the path of least resistance.

The average person just spends his money, wasting resources, the only thing that grows the economy is savings and investing. Profits are created out of thin air, this is excess wealth. Some profits are merely transaction, like a casino, one winnings is another loss but these only occur on a smaller fraction, and should not be confused with the overall concept of profit and how it grows the economy - profit is savings. The increase of productivity is what increases everyone wealth from the button and up, and it is the only real and sustainable way to do it. That is why the poorest in the US today, live better than kings two thousand years ago (apart from human labor, servants etc.)

Ive read some of your topics including the one with rewarding good community with what… ADA? wtf… Free markets work by voluntary exchange, by creating value people will pay you, or donate to your cause… I would fucking not hold ADA if it was given away to people for any X reason other than Improving the network technically. This is just fucking socialism, this is how the government started on this path this is the exact reason why we turn to crypto to get CONTROL of our money.

Quoting Keynes LOL… Thats just a joke.

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and remember, corporations are just a collection of people, nothing evil about that. Most are public companies, so if you want a piece of the pie, go ahead and buy it - and of course you are prob going to go full conspiracy telling me its only owned by a few elite people, which is complete BS.

and you do Know Charles is a Libertarian right? Though I dont think he understands the full extent of how capitalism really works and how monetary policy of Cardano should be conducted. Even though he is a believer in the principles. His specialty is in the technology aspect. But it is people like you that really makes me fear this whole governance process of Cardano, if there is not a strict immutable constitution in place for restricting any control of ADA outside of what is inside the treasury which should only be replenished by a immutable low fee, then it will eventually be corrupted into socialistic tendencies.

You are a really good writer, and you make many points that the “masses” are easily tricked into believing are true - but the world does not work as intuitively as people think it does.

The US was never destroyed by inequality - The US was destroyed by socialism, and inequality created by the hand of government. Give the government power, and you give them power to sell. Take away their power, and they have no power to sell. If the US was a free-market capitalism based system with a integritable monetary system, and no regulations the wealth in the US from poorest to rich would be on a unimaginable scale.

I believe your intentions are good, hence you have nothing to worry about, the ADA whales and its impact is completely unfounded, even if you believe me or not, I know it wont be an issue. ADA will most likely with a 99% certainty fail, like any other crypto, not due to the whales, due to cryptocurrencies not having any unique intrinsic value making them unsuitable to be money. The only way to circumvent this is creating mass adoption in smart contracts (or other use cases), making a natural demand for the currency that is not speculation, the other is to back a part, or all the currency by assets with a real treasury. A foundation in Switzerland could be created that holds assets in a trust, perhaps spread them out over more countries, it doesn’t even have to be redeemable, just that it is paid for and hold in perpetuity in a trust owned by “Cardano” and paid for by the treasury.

But if anyone has a chance at doing this, at the moment Cardano is def. the best bet.

The main purpose of Cryptocurrencies is not some socio-economic project It is bringing integrity and honesty back to money - it is not here to spread the wealth (because that cant work, and will never work and its BAD for the overall economy and progress) it is here to create fairness - regardless of who you are, rich or poor. Hard working or lazy, lucky or unlucky, it doesn’t matter. You own yourself, and therefore your productivity. Your asset are YOURS, and YOURS only, no one has the right to touch that directly or indirectly. Everybody who was in on crypto the early days mostly came from this perspective, and a lot of this has been lost with the masses getting in. Most are here for the speculation, and dont care about the principles, but it has also added a sub-section of new ideology into this space where it is suddenly to become some equalizer of wealth in the world.

I dont care about politics, the only moral system is a voluntary system with the main principle that you OWN yourself, hence you OWN what you produce. That is apart from it also being the economical best system for everyone in it, on a aggregate basis, that is just icing on the cake.


@jb455 I appreciate your detailed post. It will be interesting to see how others respond. Naturally, there are some things I don’t agree with in your post, but for now, I think your post should remain unmolested as a good exemplar of the Austrian tribe. :wink:

BTW, I have a Mises quote on the back of my business card. So that’s why I can still look at myself in the mirror after defiling myself with a Keynes quote.


Please show some restraint. There is no place on this forum for ad hominem attacks.

You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticise ideas, not people. Please avoid:

Ad hominem attacks
Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
Knee-jerk contradiction
Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.

Note that I’m just trying to get everyone to engage in a civil discussion and I am aware that tempers flare up. If we allow the above we would become a cesspool.

Thank you.


Please molest it! :smiley:

Oh! Haha… I do not know if one is enough to balance tha scale.

Anyhow, yeh with the amount of statements we both have made we could probably go on into perpetuity, al though I would enjoy to debate a smaller fragment perhaps one argument or point that we disagree on.

He/she might be a commie, but He/she is definitively not stupid not only does Adalove formulate himself/herself very well, a level I could only aspire to do so. But I read the part what dictates the value in currency fluctuations between nations and that was spot on, not many self-proclaimed Austrians could do this. That takes a very good understanding of the underlying mechanics at play. Now here is where Austrians and Keynes tend to disagree and that is where artificially lowering your currency value to maintain or create export jobs, of course a Austrian is deeply against this not only because it is interfering in the market but that “export” is a mean to an end that is “importing” hence why “exporting” for just the sake of it is deeply economically retarded.

I do not know if we disagree on this one @Adalove.

I do have a question for you, buut I will post that in the future.


So, did you make a poll among those over 180 000 ppl who have ada, and ask them about their views on (bad) whales? Or you rely on 1-2 comments here?

Its easy to spot how you try to “pose” as the community even if its obvious that you are not! but the persons - (the bad whales in your twisted mind) ARE THE COMMUNITY cos they financed IT when it was just a PAPER! project… Only cos (bad whales) invested hundreds and thousands of Bitcoin in 2015 that allowed IOHK to develop Cardano

Other then this obvious manipulation - i keep asking for an answer - how whales have “unlimited power” if their reward is EXACTLY the same as yours.
If they really have “unlimited power” why don’t they just change the protocol so they gain even more (like Dash mechanism for ex - you need to stake at least 1 000 000 ada to be eligible for an reward) :sunglasses:

The narrative of bad whales, started from this - https://adatracker.com/richest

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You would need more than 17,638,000.271454 ADA to be included among the top 100 richest ADA wallets.

Source: ADA tracker (note that some of these wallets are from exchanges).

almost all ICO ada investors (from Japan) participated at this meeting with Cardano/IOHK/Emurgo - so…here are the faces of all the bad whales

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Nice to see my new overlords…

For over 50% of them - Ada is the first crypto investment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twcVMUpX3ZI

The follow up part on that interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o767PuYbEXg

It’s easy to spot how you deliberately distort every post to create FUD about my intentions while adding zero value to the discussion. This is textbook trolling. Of course, you left out the part when I said “based on the feedback so far.” Simply creating discussions about important topics and enjoying the interesting conversations does not constitute anything sinister. Sadly, you make it difficult to enjoy anything here with your constant immature insults and deliberate distortions.

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Enjoy What?

You think punishing others for having wealth is a good idea. I think this is not far from the bolshevic mentality… but the most striking mistake you make - you still compare cardano software to centralized entities - thats why most of your conclusions are false

I am sad people like you even own ada .i hope you sell with the next ath and find another forum to showoff your brilliancy


Because I don’t feed trolls who deliberately distort everything I write. But when trolls make personal attacks against my character, I’m forced to correct the public record.