What is Cardano's Purpose?

Well in that case can we please stop talking about the hostile take over of other people’s money?

I call a duck a duck- dont complain and dont take my words out of context.

Attack the argument, not the person making it.

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Oh great, here comes Mr. Slice and Dice other people’s posts.

regarding (anonymous) whales and (un)limited staking power.
Why not define & implement an anonymous signup process that takes some time and manual steps like captchas to get a voter ID allowing a maximum stake of - let’s say - 10k ADAs that remains valid for - let’s say - one year. (in practice I would always recommend using some ecosystem relative threshold and not a fixed value like 10k)
This way a normal Joe could sign up by knowing that this little extra “work” guarantees him to not become insignificant. The (good, bad, silent, thin and fat) whales could decide if it’s worth time and effort to register multiple times.
Sounds too complicated for all users or too simple as a fair solution?

This thread is turning into a great case study for fallacies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies :wink:

Sweet :slightly_smiling_face:, let’s get back to the substance of the discussion

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I agree, which is why I posted We Are Trapped in a Bubble.

After observing all the ideological mudslinging over the past couple days, I thought it would be fun to explore the root cause of these debates. Maybe we can create a bit more mutual understanding and harmony between the commies and fascists.

No way am I getting involved on these threads again spawned by AL she is totally OCD on this forum and conducts veiled attacks with carefully chosen words as to appear to not be attacking some one when in fact she is.

Every time a tread does not go her way she spins off a new one. Same thread with the same content but with a different title to make it appear to be different but it is the same. Now this insanity is on to a third thread. That lady is going to wreck this forum.

… Rick out …

btc price in 2015 was 170 - 420 usd. But they could have bought it even earlier. 2015 is when they “paid” btc for ada. The chart is 100% accurate and its old at least from oct 2017.

You are free to make your own math and see if it checks up :sunglasses:

Agree 100% - crazy dude dreaming whales all day long

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How about you learn the meaning of the word - DECENTRALIZATION ? About anonymous part = similar to cenzorship (what if one decided to stay anonymos, he loses all his rights? haha ) The Maximum stake is again - communism -

Of course decentralization has to remain a fundamental part. (so I hadn’t mentioned it again)
Ouroboros includes some research about decentralized random number generation that everyone can trust it wasn’t generated, influenced or falsely verified by an adversary. Should be easy to use the same or similar approach for votibg registration verification.

Then I didn’t mean that registration means loss af anonymity. The registration can happen similar to transactions, but instead of transfering monetary value (at max a slight reg.fee for the processing pools) this process requires some “nasty” manual interaction and time.
Just an example: a captcha is there to prevent automated start of such a process. Then the implemented process runs as a DAP in the cardano network and returns back one special access key fitting only to your request. The trick is that this key comes back from the decentralised network after a random time of at least 14 and max 21 days. As the returned code has no indicator to what request it belongs users who try to register their stake multiple times can’t know if they are going to use the right one. If they attempt to try the wrong key the DAP deducts 50% of the intended stake.

Did you note that I hadn’t and will definitively answer or react on anyone’s attempt to declare me or someone else into a political or ideological scheme? This is already a very ambitious task when doing it with real life people I know privately or in business for decades of years. IMHO It simply couldn’t work in such a forum here.

MULTIPARTY COMPUTATION
One of the fundamental problems of the slot leader election process is its unbiasedness. A certain degree of randomness is needed as a base for election, in this case, results of this election are random and fair. So the question is where can this randomness be obtained from?

A multiparty computation (MPC) approach is used to achieve this randomness where each elector independently performs an action which is called “coin tossing” and after that shares results with other electors. The idea is that results are randomly generated by each elector, but eventually they agree on the same final value.

From - https://cardanodocs.com/cardano/proof-of-stake/
The crypto library for MPC - GitHub - input-output-hk/pvss-haskell

Any sort of limitations like this are unfair! Why do you want to favour the small holders? You think having 5000 usd worth of ada makes you more “involved” then having 5 000 000 usd worth?

Yeh and it wouldn’t work either, people would just split it into many smaller wallets (despite the idea being silly to begin with)

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The logic of small holders being somehow “better” then bigger is STUPID! 1 ada = 1 ada. They are the same. The reward is the same even if you have 1 ada or 1 bil ada so its as fair as it gets. In real life its not the same, big corp and the elites have billions and always find ways to scam the system and get a way, the rest of planet - has to pay its taxes or the gov would crush them

I agree in parts, like their financial power, ability to lobbying …
But Mr.Billionare BigBoss has the same one vote when it comes to elect his cities mayor up to the nations president (at least in democratic evolved regions without too much anonymous mafia behaviour)

Yeah instead you have a bunch of idiots (the masses) voting, there is a reason why the US was founded as a constitutional republic the founding fathers had the foresight and knew the failure and dangers of democracy - unfortunately, despite all the safe guards it pretty much turned into a full democracy with the supreme courts overlooking the constitution in favor of “modernism” vs original intent. Income taxes are for example unconstitutional, call up the IRS and ask if taxes are voluntary and they will say yes. Their definition of voluntary is you are punished/jail if you dont, but you had a choice. lol

I do not know if we can compare ADA to a government, in a company voting is done per share and yes I believe that is the most fair and best system - but that also means that the governance structure has to be limited in what it is able to do. Like improving the network etc is fine, but transferring ADA from one wallet to another should of course not be something that the governance structure of ADA could even do.

Why do you compare a decentralized network to a centralized entity? How is this even relevant? Electing mayor cities has a history of whaa? few centuries? Cardano is a 5 month old decentralized database (software).

The issue with corruption is that they buy out political power so ONLY they can extract financial gains from the status-quo (from here https://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Origins-Prosperity/dp/0307719227 )

Cardano’s protocol is not like this AT ALL and it can never be like that, for some obvious and fundamental reasons: its a decentralized network, there is no “point of control” that you can move in your favour by extortion, corruption, bribery, intimidation and so on…

the Only “point of failure” is if control of 51**% of the stake gets in the wrong hands** . But. i think it’s impossible to buy 13 bil ada - just look at the order book - it would cost to much and its not enough for sale anyway. Not even an alliance of whales could ever achieve this - cos the risk of a fork is huge - they could potentially loose it ALL -

Very simple: because each citizen of this world has one brain, two hands and the right to live, work eat, love and die after having experienced all of this with reverence and respect. Peoples mind and thoughts shouldn’t be valuated only by his monetary power favouring historical the same as modern slavery.
If you look up today and in history, you will see that most of the severe problems came up and are still here because of exactly this, and not because only communists or capitalists or whatever else was the only wrong ideology.
And BTW: I didn’t say that small holders should be somehow “better”. There is another word for a better world: “equal”. What do you think about?

My point is not generally against whales or billionaires. Browse and whois for relentless.com. surprised? Research about some African leaders. It’s a continent where 300 million very poor people live. They get overwhelmed by a few very rich people who also have the ability to influence votings, decisions and monetary distribution. Blood-diamonds, genocides, land-rubbery, … are not happening in evolved regions who have learned from their historical mistakes (at least until gen-yz people tend to forget about it again)

On the other side, there are Billionaires like Gates and Musk I consider as good whale examples because they use their monetary power to disrupt, research, improve and evolve things to a better world. And you know what? they don’t need a 1:1 richness voting power. They use their monetary power to initiate, process and complete things that people with less money simply can’t do. But they are not like a dictator who gives a shit about his “own” millions of citizens (=slaves).

We also have to keep in mind that Cardano like most other crypto-currencies intends to become a borderless worldwide ecosystem. But this world up to now has not only unequal personal wealth distributions but also completely different levels when comparing nations or continents. Even inside Europe these different levels create several (1st world) problems.
By considering a 1:1 richness=voting power this wouldn’t mean anything else then a mid- to long-term digital cryptic anonymous appropriation of the entire world by the Forbes top100 and G7 nations (if not only G3)

As (my) conclusion: staking with some monetary power influence is ok, but it has to be limited to more human equality, instead of financial inequality. cryptos could become a powerful vehicle. And power must be handled with care. If not his history would clearly show it was a tremendously powerful vehicle.

You also asked why I compare a virtual bunch of code with the real world. Very simple: because if this bunch of code would become something that could change and improve this world, then sooner or later it has to enter into the real physical life of all people. It’s not the entire world and all of it citizens who have to join the virtual wet dreams of some gamblers and nerds.

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I know what a hard fork is, and I oppose the traditional hard fork, I do not support playing around with other peoples money in any way, they deserve to control the blockchain they invested in.
I propose a complete fork, a new chain without the Genesis Block of the original Cardano chain, with community support, with several strategic distribution points globally to focus on a wider distribution,
this is what I can stand behind, maximize the global input when voting begins, I can imagine flaws in the original ICO that could have people that see the future run by AI controlling the majority vote.

Your next post is irrelevant in my response @Adafans_io as I do not want to remove the original holders of ADA.

And this is why I propose a fork away, cause the ideology that Cardano was built on is right - it just was played out wrong and this can be seen in hindsight, people will be looking for the foundation and the structure to align itself but the ICO harmed the structure, if you think that the ICO hodlers are going to vote for their own opposing minority (if it is a geographically concentrated ICO) your dead wrong IMO, this is just if it was mainly geographically concentrated - which people seem to think it was:

They can’t be blamed, hey, good idea, I see the money, going for it period

It’s not going to stop, a libertarian will always find flaw’s and they draw from one of the many political pursuits in the world and just happen to incorporate their own idea’s into how they will stand, I happen to have been misnamed and been called out as a U.S. Constitutionalist, and all I am is a standalone humanist that defines the term by my compassion for other intelligent life forms - yet others choose to throw a label on me cause I made a few mistakes in my step’s that led them to believe something I don’t even understand.

Take that to another thread, I would really like to build on Cardano and would really like to understand whether my efforts into MTR’S on the blockchain would serve the industry I am in while on Cardano or a fork of Cardano - So - What is Cardano’s Purpose?

Right, Cause the problem with the Whales is not that they are Whales but the Amount of Whales might just be centralized within a certain geologic area and would never support the idea’s coming out of humble villages and towns around the world.

On this I would say that governance is taking a new turn, and I do like the idea that my stake can only contribute to the chain if I believe in the governance and am willing to invest in it with my holdings, its new to me I saw it before but did not fully adopt it until I read through Cardano, I am one of the many that do not have mass amounts of wealth where I could expect my votes to count in this system but will still invest in the future, the future of my kiddo’s that rely on me to find the right path for them.
A fork away should be considered by the qualified as an option for those that want to truly decentralize a blockchain, with a complex well debated plan to distribute it to the libertarian leaning people of the world geographically no matter how they lean or where they come from, is there a good way to find a unapproachable and incorruptible way to spread it out?

  • With Staking I doubt Whales will ever really sell ADA, they sell a few to recover their investment but the original ICO buyers most likely will be the voters that determine how free the Cardano blockchain is run and what direction it goes.

-Disclaimer: I know little about politics and history, I know little about crypto, the only thing I know is we want to be heard on the blockchain = Lets work toward’s fairness now, cause as soon as cross chain technology is commonplace all of our idea’s will find new problem’s.