Cardano and government approval

Understood, but if you kill a burglar that has entered your home and is threatening your family, have you broken a universal law (“thou shalt not kill”)? If you steal a loaf of bread because you have no job and you’re starving to death, have you broken a universal law (“thou shalt not steal”)? When Japanese companies in the 1960s and Chinese companies during the 1980s-2000s stole intellectual property from the West to accelerate their economic development, reduce their poverty, and increase the quality of their citizens’ lives, did they believe they were breaking universal laws or just trying to survive?

We can identify many situations in our world where laws/morals that we think are universal are actually highly subjective and circumstantial. This is not an argument for moral relativism; it’s just an acknowledgement that laws are created by social consensus in every society. That consensus is based on a hierarchy of priorities, principles, and values that are not always prioritized the same way across countries.

Thus, my point was that trying to use Cardano to prevent subjective and vaguely defined “immoral activities” would turn our world into Orwell’s 1984 or the world of Judge Dredd.

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If you kill a burgler in self defence you have not broken a universal law. There where circumstances that conspired that made other considerations (to paraphrase Kant)

My point here being that I believe this is almost universally adopted and there are many more like it. (Punshment for killing, no punishment for self defence in an emergency) They usually differ in small amounts from culture to culture. These are not vaguely defined immoral activites they are mostly accepted throughout the world. What I am trying to say while you argue that there are many situations in the world that are highly subjective and circumstantial my argument is there are many situations that are the opposite - universally accepted and that is even with being created by social concencus. Again there is a reason why most citizens accept its governments laws and why there is global agreements as well. If there where no universal laws this would probably have not happened.

With that said: I agree blockchain has huge potential for tracking every citizens transactions thus this has to be very carefully considered. (As in your 1984 Orwell hintings) When I say some regulation I do not mean full regulation.

A major innovation of Cardano is that it will balance the needs of users with those of regulators, and in doing so combine privacy with regulation. The vision for Cardano is that its new style of regulated computing will bring greater financial inclusion by providing open access for all to fair financial services.

What is Cardano

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On Bitcoin going to zero -
It’s possible that “big money” tries to kill BTC, in fact I think this is what we are seeing happening right now and will in the future. So far they have not been able to break the 9.5k floor (which shows the strength of BTC believers) but if 6-7k floor is broken we could see BTC go to zero and buried for years, not unlike the electric car in the 50s. In this case I don’t think switching to other coins will not be an option, the whole market could shrink to nothingness.

I’m writing “big money” and not governments because despite being super rich, many countries can’t just do w/e they want with their money. Hedge funds I find to be scarier, and of course the “shadow council” that Hollywood loves to portray (who knows right?).

Most cryptofans seem to think that existing power structures will simply relinquish it peacefully. I don’t think so.
Cryptos will have to survive an incubation where they will be accepted as a Trojan horse by existing systems. I will explain -

Standard currency exchanges (for example) who will not give their clients access to virtual markets will lose them. Big investors who will get in the cryptogame will outperform their competition. etc

We will want to encourage this adoption by “big money” despite welcoming “malevolent agents” into our ecosystem by doing so, if this trend continues for a few years “big old money” will find itself trapped in our world. Cryptos will infect all financial DNA, and then we can start really changing things. I hope :smiley:

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I wish Cardano wasn’t connected to Bitcoin. It seems so much better, like the golden grandchild of just an awful grandfather - why should the grandchild have to pay for the grandfather’s short comings?

Hi @Wheisler,

I wish Cardano wasn’t connected to Bitcoin.

Do you mean “connected” as in we currently must buy BTC/ETH/LTC first to then trade those older cryptos for ADA? If so, this is only temporary and I don’t think we have any reason to worry about ADA being dependent upon BTC forever.

In fact, ADA will be available from several more centralized exchanges throughout 2018. And eventually it will be available directly through Daedalus in the form of a decentralized crypto exchange, which will finally eliminate the risks and frustrations associated with all the centralized gatekeepers that currently stand between us and our precious ADA. :heart_eyes:

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Hi dear @rin9s,

I agree with most of this, but I think it’s useful to distinguish between “Big Money” and the “Banking Lobby.” I have to interact with large family offices, hedge funds, and high-net-worth individuals pretty frequently (“Big Money”). Almost all of the ones that I know are aware that the fiat system is collapsing and they would love to escape it if there was a viable alternative that didn’t inject too much volatility into their investment portfolios.

Most of the Big Money are still not comfortable with cryptos’ volatility; so they’re on the sidelines, but of course many Big Money speculators are invested in cryptos to boost their portfolio performance. This is generally a good thing because they bring essential liquidity to our crypto markets.

Now, the Banking Lobby is a different beast altogether. They have already played sinister games with the crypto community by misleading their customers about the nature and value of cryptos, refusing to offer their customers any kind of access to cryptos to suppress the growth of cryptos, and they’re preparing for a blockchain patent war against projects like Cardano.

So, I look forward to educating and partnering with Big Money as our community evolves and matures. In contrast, the Banking Lobby and Big Brother are the real twin villains in our epic journey toward crypto Nirvana. And they can never be trusted because the growth and success of cryptos will make them obsolete and reveal the truth about their existence: Most of them (excluding community banks and credit unions) are a black hole of value, which sucks all the value out of our global economy. Thus, they will fight us to the bitter end, but they cannot win in the long-run for many reasons.

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Basically I agree with every word.
Obviously I wasn’t clear enough about my meaning in “Big Money”. But “Banking Lobby” sounds too narrow. I guess “Big money” is any financial institution or (extremely) wealthy individuals who draw their wealth and power from the exploitation of the financial system. For me that includes hedge-funds. And insurance companies. And investment banks. And possibly Mcdonalds and Faizer and the Illuminati and who knows who else. SMBs never have this kind of money, and there are maybe 2,000 individuals on the planet with enough wealth to matter.
Maybe I should call it “Huge money” instead :smiley:

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Well, that is awesome to know! But what I meant was, bitcoin drops - EVERYTHING drops. Why does it have to be that way?

I don’t have a lot off faith that BTC is going to be around in the next 5-10 years and that has me worried about what will happen to my ada value

@Wheisler, Thank you for asking such a good and honest question. Many people don’t understand this issue. So . . . .

Correlation Risk. In investment portfolio management, there is a concept called “correlation risk.” In this context, that means the price of one asset moves in the same direction as the price of another asset. Assets can be positively or negatively correlated, which determines the direction and magnitude of their price changes. Portfolio mangers do everything possible to mitigate correlation risk.

All Assets Have Correlation Risk. Today, all global markets suffer from correlation risk because virtually all assets worldwide are pegged or intrinsically linked to fiat currencies or some other benchmark. Thus, when the price of fiat currencies or the benchmark changes, the price of everything else changes, too.

BTC’s Influence Over Crypto Markets is Waning. In this case, BTC is the benchmark cryptocurrency simply because it has the first-mover advantage, but BTC’s influence over the market is waning, and will likely become very weak over time. As the cryptocurrency markets grow, diversify, and become more mature, BTC will exert an increasingly smaller influence over all other cryptocurrencies, which means cryptos like ADA will not be as impacted by BTC’s price changes as they are today.

We Can Look Forward to Long-Run ADA Stability. As ADA becomes more widely held, it will emerge as the likely benchmark in the crypto world and in the fiat world for many reasons. In particular, its volatility should be far lower than BTC and other cryptos because the incentive structure embedded within Cardano (Ouroboros) is inherently designed to reward loyalty and long-run savings, which is not the case for BTC and most other cryptos. These same dynamics will probably even result in ADA being less volatile than most fiat currencies over the long-run. This will have a profoundly positive impact on the entire crypto market, and ultimately, the entire global economy.

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Wow, do you work for Cardano? Lol

Yes, and so do you. :slight_smile: Cardano is the Community and the Community is Cardano. Cardano will succeed to the degree that we all take ownership and contribute in whatever way we can.

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Once again @ADALove thank you for contribution to the Cardano community. I wish I had more time to contribute myself. Your thoughtful comments are appreciated. If decentralization is to flourish it will be due to the community willingness to take an active role. This is what makes me want to be more involved in the Cardano community, to increase the probability that financial decentralization becomes a reality in our world. We all have a role in its success. The technological barriers to success at a mass adoption level are huge and I think Cardano has the right approach, but without a healthy active community it will not flourish.

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ADALove have you developed a talk track that you could share that would help evangelize Cardano to high net individuals?

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I’m working on this and several other complimentary projects. One of them will include our entire community here, which will be fun and interesting for all involved. It will also help to amplify our collective voice. As soon as I’m ready, I will present here with a request for comments. Stay tuned. . . .

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ADALove- Choskins recently answered the “how to defeat large banks over time question” in this video https://youtu.be/DKCSSZXm9ac (fast forward to minute 54–59)

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Thank you for the link. I’m not yet sure how I feel about his approach. I understand his rationale for wanting to take a safe and slow path under the radar in Africa and the developing world first. However, it will be difficult to suppress the enormous emotional outpouring that every conscious human in the developed world, too, should experience when they have the epiphany of what Cardano represents for humanity.

Additionally, as much as I would prefer to avoid harassment from the state, we’re running out of time. The rapid evolution and convergence of artificial intelligence, micro-drones, the IoT, capital controls, generational debt prison, and the collusion between state and corporate interests to suppress all liberty-enhancing projects will soon make it virtually impossible to escape the ubiquitous surveillance state that many governments are relentlessly building today.

If we don’t escape before the great convergence, humanity may never be able to escape. That’s a difficult reality to ignore and it’s one of the most compelling reasons to build support for our community ASAP. It’s a moot issue now because nobody outside the core team has any influence over the roadmap, but when we have the ability to vote with our stake, it will become an interesting debate over time.

Anybody who feels a societal sense of urgency will rationally want to bring freedom to all ADA stakeholders before AI+IoT+ubiquitous surveillance+corporate/state dominance is too powerful to evade or escape.

I guess we’ll take it one day at a time.

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“Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.” - George Orwell.

One day at a time…

Some thoughts:

I think it’s the right approach to prove that the system actually works. If it works and is accepted in Somalia, then from a technical point of view it will work everywhere (I don’t say that in a prejudiced way, when I visited Somalia in 2007, it was said that Somalia had one of the best mobile phone networks in Africa… If it is used and accepted in Somalia, then the system is good). If it can be scaled to a significant part of the global population and work well, then that is a proof that from an organisational point of view it works. This is important to gain credibility. There are a number of issues linked to only betting on this horse though: the key ones I see are that the intent to take on the status quo is clear (and made public) and that the time, effort and energy it will take to roll this out will be important. The banksters know the intention, and have the time to analyse and prepare their counter-attack, which, if the Cardano team is up to their ears in rolling out and solving operational issues in Africa/ Asia/ Latin America, will be difficult to meet. Getting 3 billion persons as back-up is not going to do it when Cardano would be attacked.

I understand Charles point that he doesn’t want to make himself too obvious a target. But he already is to some extent.

Therefore an approach needs to be taken that will take him off the hook, and Cardano itself out of the cross-hairs (to the extent possible). I agree with ADALove that there needs to be a parallel movement that simultaneously raises the awareness around Cardano (maybe I interpret here, this is what I read).

For reasons already mentioned elsewhere I’d advocate to make this movement as wide as possible, I don’t think this should be exclusively about Cardano. Present them with many targets. Cardano, if it starts to become a threat, is easy to take out. A platform of many blockchains, civil society organisations (e.g. human rights, development, environmental orgs), important business partners, research centres, government champions and with known, credible and trusted advocates and 3 million unbanked who have become banked much less so. It has to become a movement, with a clear vision around what the blockchain technology could achieve for society, and that develops a multi-pronged approach to take this vision forward. Such a movement needs to start somewhere, it could start ‘from Cardano’, but I think that it shouldn’t stay there.

I have proposed to several humanitarian organisations I have worked with in the past to do some work on what the blockchain could potentially do for them and for the persons they work with (the more who are on board, the better), but no real interest up to now… I think we’re still too early…

I also feel that there is an urgency to get this movement rolling if this is to fly.

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