Cardano - each ADA is really worth $429.13 RIGHT NOW... here's why

The USD (1 USD Dollar) does not need the cent… But the cent needs the USD… Its not a equal relationship… Also You quoted it out of context with further explanation…

You are claiming that when I pay with 100 USD, I am really paying with 10.000 Pennies, but we just choose to say USD… I say this is the opposite… We are paying with USD and when we use cents, we just use the words cents because it is easier than saying 1/100 of a USD…

I say that is the most logical path of least resistance and explains why it would be this way.

But you can technically say what you do, because cents are interseperable from the USD in definiton of what a cent is. they are still a 1/100 USD… But in every part of life we choose the 1 Unit as benchmark… So I have to go with the same with ADA… Its for simplicity…

Also using the logic of it being a non-equal relationship… You can remove the cents, quarters, nickles, you can remove the 100, 50,25,10 dollar bill or any other denomination… But you cant remove 1 Dollar… (sure you can remove the 1$ bill, but you cant remove the unit 1 USD because that is the center-point-benchmark for the rest)

But

You can argue what you do, because it is a question about semantics - and it is a interesting little debuckle, something I haven’t had to think about before, and I found it rather entertaining and I appreciate your arguments. Comparing my comments to this in regards of the original post, is not anything close - there is nothing to be argued in the original post, that is 100% math and simply wrong.

What we are talking about is not as straight forward because it involves subjective matters (what you actually mean with the words you use)

So what do you say to the question I asked?

If Cardano chose to add “Lovehandles” lets say it was 1.000.000.000 lovehandles = 1 ADA, did we expand the ADA supply? is there more or less ADA in circulation than before?

Just curious, how do you get those numbers?

I think $40-50 is possible if we believe that #Cardano will have a MC of $1trln. The whole space will blow up several fold when the institutional money pours in within 12-24 months. It’s happening as we speak.

We can hit $2-3 price level this fall when staking starts and reduces supply drastically.

ADA is a screaming buy.

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It is actually called…“Lovelace”…not “Lovehandle”…just a correction…:wink:
Post from yesterday:

Oh really. You sure? I think that summarizes everything here :slight_smile:

So no questions I guess. Ok then. We will put it to rest.

It doesn’t matter. Don’t underestimate what they can do. It’s not that hard to trick someone into clicking on a malicious link even if you use a VPN. There has been countless hacks and the victims still don’t know what happened. Most recent was this week (don’t click if you don’t trust me :nerd_face:).
I see that you’ve edited your comment. I’m just being friendly and would hate to see people getting robbed :slight_smile:

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@CosmosX I heard your advice) and listened) thanks) you need to behave carefully and carefully) I agree.You say the right things.

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THAT’S JUST WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS PISS OFF CHARLES

Wanted to add my 2 lovelaces/satoshis/cents what have you to this debate even though it’s a little late. I think one important detail both people have missed is that $1 dollar of crypto purchased does not increase the market cap by $1. I think the estimate I’ve read are that $1 of BTC purchased increases the MC by $20 where $1 of ADA increases it by 50. This is where the differences in the location of the decimal point (amount of satoshis vs lovelaces) impacts the prices of ADA and BTC differently. Yes market cap/circulating supply=price for both but market caps do not grow at the same rate for both. But as one of the other posters noted, trying to predict price/MC is pointless. Hoping for triple digit prices while expecting single digit.

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Our friend’s argument is not correct.
You can either compare Bitcoin with ADA or Satoshi with Lovelace. Don’t mix them in the middle of computation.
And at the end comparing Bitcoin with ADA or Satoshi with Lovelace, give you the same result.

We suppose in hypothetical circumstances, Market favors Bitcoin and ADA equally, price of Bitcoin is USD 10000 and there is no factor other than maximum possible supply to determine the price of ADA.

1-Comparing Bitcoin with ADA:

Bitcoin max supply = 21,000,000
ADA max supply = 45,000,000,000
45,000,000,000 / 21,000,000 = 2143
Thus 1 Bitcoin = 2143 ADA
if 1 Bitcoin = USD 10000 then 1 ADA = 10000 / 2143 = USD 4.67

Result: 1 ADA = USD 4.67

2-Comparing Satoshi with Lovelace:

Satoshi max supply = 2,100,000,000,000,000
Lovelace max supply = 45,000,000,000,000,000
45,000,000,000,000,000 / 2,100,000,000,000,000 = 21.43
Thus 1 Satoshi = 21.43 Lovelace
if 1 Bitcoin = USD 10000 then 1 Satoshi = USD 0.0001
if 1 Satoshi = USD 0.0001 then 1 Lovelace = 0.0001 / 21.43 = USD 0.00000467

Result: 1 Lovelace = USD 0.00000467 which means 1 ADA = USD 4.67

It should be obvious that playing with numbers doesn’t change the result.

Final conclusion:
In hypothetical circumstances which Market favors Bitcoin and ADA equally and there is no factor other than maximum possible supply to determine the price of ADA, price of ADA is roughly equal to 0.05 percent (1/2000) of price of Bitcoin.

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@jb455 You are very good at explaining this. Thanks. I am sorry that so many people don’t get it.

I think short term ada damm eazy 5$ ,hope you saw what xrp did in last bullrun it has a much much bigger suply iff all goes like i see in ada it can crack eth .by 2030 500$ its a dream come true.i have faith in charles h.i am a disciple of c.h
Ada no 1.

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This has to do with the value of the marketcap (this is the whole value of the space). To put it in perspective, I imagine a set of plots of land for sale in a beach. Imagine one plot is valued at 10 million USD, and anotherone is valued at 1 million USD. With 1 dollar, one can purchase more percentage of the plot, buying from the one that is valued at 1 million.
Now, it wouldn’t matter in this case if the owner is selling square inches, or square centimeters, the corresponding piece of plot will be traded for your 1 dollar. That is why price is more affected (and we see a lot of volatility) in those coins with lower marketcaps (It doen’t matter the price of the coin nor the supply). It would be a matter of marketcap and liquidity, volume.

I find it great to have these conversations. Finally people is talking about money!

Remember, Cardano is a smart contract platform built on a block chain. You have to stop thinking about it in fiat. If you are designing for a platform to handle smart contracts that is going to run for decades, ideally you wouldn’t even have a cap/limit. Value is going to be determined by the quality, security, scalability of the contracts, and the demand by the developers and implementers of those contracts.

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I know with 100% certainty that you are wrong… I just dont know how I would explain it to you (or others who believe this)

If it is that clear to you, you should be able to explain it, even to us fools.
And I really do want to understand your point of view but for now I can’t see it (still have to read the all post).

To me the value of ADA and Bitcoin (or better say where the decimal period is placed) is a more arbitrary concept than the amount of smallest units satoshis vs lovelaces.

Take Oil for instance, if suddenly all of the barrels in the world get much bigger, would that make oil suddenly a more scarse resource and its price to rise?
I guess in reality what really makes the price and establishes value is the number/scarcity of molecules of Oil or the number of slightest quantity of Oil that can be used, for whatever is the reason that the people/businesses who are willing to buy it need it for. They surely don’t buy it for the barrel right? (barrel which I think is used for the CME Futures contracts)

Is the slightest quantity that can be used for BTC and ADA respectively Satoshis and Lovelaces?

(probably not, fees comes into play, but still I guess in the end the market caps would come out different?)

429 ??? dude… your weed is really good!

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Just to add something to keep in mind. According to the experts of sound money, the Austrian economists, value is something that is only “inside your head”. Things or concepts do not “hold” value, is people who project that value into things so for every person there is a different value. Markets are where people put these valorations into play untill the price is discovered, again and again.

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correct!!! supply is not the only variable in the price… maybe it is the minor factor

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It’s amazing to me that this topic is still going but it also explains in a nutshell why markets behave the way the do. People perceive value in very different ways. In the long run it doesn’t matter though what your personal perception of the value of thing “x” is. It will have very little affect (direct or indirect) on the realized value of thing “x”.

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Let’s clear this one up with an easy metaphor / short story:

You go to a ₿aker and buy two identical apples pies. Each pie is $12. You ask him to cut the first pie into 6 slices. You then ask him to cut the second pie into 12 slices.

Which pie is more valuable?

Both pies are still of equal value despite having a different number of slices. Both pies are still worth $12.

You decide you will take both pies to a charity bake sale and sell slices.

How should the slices be priced?

The pie cut into 6 slices should be priced at twice the price of the pie cut into 12 slices if things are kept equal. People will pay $2 for a large slice of apple pie, and $1 for a small slice because they generally know what an apple pie costs and can view their portion relatively.

All of the above is a basic illustration of token valuation (pie slices) as derived from total market cap (the whole pie).

I’m sure most of you are with me… so hold on… this is where people get very confused (including the OP).

At the bake sale, your clever friend notices that there are thousands of people looking to purchase pie. He suggests you cut the slices into even smaller divisions and sell them as ‘slivers’ which are simply a fraction of the original ‘slice.’ If you can cut enough slivers you will have enough pie fractions to serve everyone.

This sounds like a good idea. You decide to work on the pie that is cut into 12 slices, but the knife you have can only cut each slice so thin. You can cut 10 ‘slivers’ from each slice. This creates an apple pie with 12 slices or 120 slivers. Because the pie was $12, you decide to price each ‘slice’ will sell for $1 and each sliver for $0.10.

While you were dividing up your apple pie, some competition has moved in next to you! The ₿aker himself has decided to attend the bake sale and has brought along with him his prized seven layer chocolate cake worth a whopping $120. This prized cake is well known and commands the high price because of it’s quality and reputation.

The ₿aker cuts his cake into only 6 slices and prices each slice at $20. It’s a high cost, but some people are willing to pay for it. The ₿aker, however, knows that he can cut each slice into slivers as well. In fact he has a much better knife than you and cuts each ‘slice’ into 100 ‘slivers’! With only 6 slices he’s able to create 600 slivers.

So his $120 cake is now sold at $20 per ‘slice’ or just $0.20 per ‘sliver’.

You clever friend turns to you and says, ‘The ₿aker is a fool! His slices are fewer and more expensive, but he’s created far more slivers!’

You ask your very clever friend, “What does this have to do with anything?” and he responds,

“Well if the ₿aker’s ‘slivers’ are worth $0.20 and ours are worth $0.10, it means his slivers are only twice our price. So really his prized seven layer chocolate cake is only worth twice as much as our apple pie! If people did the math, they’d know our apple pie is really worth $60!”

Your clever friend, not sounding so clever anymore begins to further extrapolate, “So if his cake is only worth twice as much as our apple pie, we can divide the current price of his slice by 2 to figure out what our slices should be worth. He’s charging $20 per slice, which means we should be charging $10 per slice!“

You shake your head and explain to him that this is not how it works; the whole apple pie is only worth $15, and this is how people will perceive it. You tell him that the number of slices is sort of arbitrary and only a unit sufficiently small enough for most people to consume. You go on to explain that cutting ‘slices’ into ‘slivers’ is only useful to create the smallest unit of delivery for this unexpectedly busy bake sale and still service everyone no matter how small their desire for pie. You mention to your friend that, if all you had done is borrow the ₿aker’s knife, you could have easily cut your ‘slices’ into an equal number of 'slivers’ which would have only changed the price of the ‘sliver’ and not the ‘slice’. You continue to say that the number of ‘slivers’ was also rather arbitrary and held no baring on the value of the whole apple pie.

But it was too late, your very clever friend has stopped listening to you, now negotiating with the ₿aker and looking to buy as many of those $60 apple pies as the baker might sell him - all for the absolute bargain basement price of just $12.

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That’s a great illustration, but I’d say the situation is even worse, because marketcap in crypto isn’t rationally based either!

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