Criticism and censorship - or the irony, hubris and hypocracy of the self appointed “Guardians”

#22

funny that you would ask that cause apparently in this “guardian” created culture of groupthink - there cannot be anyone who has a differing opinion not toeing the line. if they are they must have some grand ulterior motive! and should be stoned or burned at the stake!

for all their claims and assertions to be master sleuths, world class journalists/detectives… they apparently can’t solve the impossible puzzle of the identity of someone who has a profile photo and threads with posts of videos all bearing my face in them… :clap:

#23

Actually I am pretty comfortable with what I wrote and my explenation even with your reply.

#24

ah, ok, i see… you know its ok not to know things, but pretending to - not so much. so just, you know, do some homework, research and learn what things like transparency and incentivisation mean in relation to open distributed ledgers and decentralised applications.

#25

Why don’t you assemble Avengers instead? Maybe you can initiate an petition to ask for CH’s resignation and express your different opinion. :slight_smile:

#27

Hi @misteraxyz,

are you satisfied with the way how CF operates and performs? If not, what do you think is the biggest concern?

#28

Typical, no. Particularly challenging times, yes. This forum is mostly a friendly and constructive place, look back at old threads and see for yourself. Unfortunately, but IMO inevitably, contentious issues do arise, and sometimes they take a while to resolve, if ever.

#29

I have been participating in this forum moderately, enough to know that this is not typical.

This I think is a symptom of the challenging situation that needed to be brought to public attention. Perhaps also largely due to some YouTube videos that seems to promote the idea that there are exactly 9 guardians of Cardano.

Videos like these, IMO, are actually a disservice to the community and almost at the edge of self promotion.

My personal response to such videos is “whatever!”. We as a community will get over this soon.

#30

I agree with @RobJF and @canopus that this is not typical. This forum is usually a great place to learn, get support from the community and keep up to date with the progress of the Cardano protocol.

I really believe that everyone here has the same goal and that is to have a properly functioning CF that is fulfilling its duties. There are myriad ways that we could eventually get to that point, but we are not all going to agree on the path and actions to make that happen. If everyone here can stop focusing on how these 9 community members (And that’s all they are, 9 very invested members or our community whom I truly believe have the best interest of the Cardano ecosystem at heart.) have hopefully initiated some progress in this effort, and start focusing on what each and everyone of us can do to help move this towards resolution then this will get resolved more quickly.

I agree that transparency is extremely important, but full 100% transparency 100% of the time is not practical. If playing a game of chess, would you be 100% transparent and tell your opponent the moves you are planning? I think not.

#31

haha, lol… you know… :thinking: joking :sweat_smile: having said that, levity aside, CH, whilst not being without fault in all this, has otherwise conducted himself admirably.

and just to clarify, to reiterate i’m not (as i and others on telegram have expressed) on “team petition” as i think it’s misguided, inefficient and ultimately relatively ineffective.

#32

if it walks like a duck, quarks like a duck, looks like a duck…

such an outlook i have to say worst case is (to put it politely) unwise, best case is deliberately disingenuous.

you know and understand psychologically how it could and does seem like that. this isn’t even factoring the desire for click-baited content of people whose livelihood depends on that. we shouldn’t be giving them any reason to bring our integrity into disrepute.

so instead of doing the easy thing, which is do nothing and say “whatever!” - how about doing what’s difficult but ultimately right, you know actually questioning how this scenario came to be. why was it not done openly by the community but instead in secret and then branded to top it off?

just food for thought :plate_with_cutlery::thought_balloon:

as an alternate point, leading by example. as we know, we’re in the “age of video” and so these videos have a wide reach, so when ummjackson was on a video talking about https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/ i made the point to request that he make a distinction with cardano as it’s not decentralised yet and so saying that it’s only one node gives people the impression that cardano is centralised. not long after he actually did it! so now this resource is no longer giving people the wrong impression.

i could have just ¯_(ツ)_/¯ but instead, at the risk of being ignored or ridiculed (ummjackson has publicly been a hash critic of cardano and CH) - i chose to act.

#33

hey @hivos, thanks for asking.

yes i do have concerns about CF and beyond. have had for some time and have voiced them offline and online to little to no effect.

i’ll try and keep it brief and specific.

i’ll start with what i think CF has done that i think has been of value. CF have put together meet-ups, at least the ones in london, all which i’ve attended. they actually learned from the first one (which was speculator-centric and not by design) to keep the ones that were to follow to have a focus - they all had - albeit just tech focused (as opposed to say design or leveraging the community to understand how it’ll apply to wider uses in order to spread that - like the possibilities browser integration).

as for the criticism it doesn’t just neatly conveniently point fault at CF and MP.

yes, they are a part not the whole. IOHK and EM being the two other parties have yet to paint a complete picture (why MP was hired in the first place, why weren’t the funds milestone based, why weren’t there links for accountability between the otherwise three separate entities, why aren’t the entities transparent by default etc) to then use that forensic analysis put into action how we move onward in an open, transparent and accountable manner.

the issues go beyond just community, they spill over into commercial opportunities as i’ve tying to enquire about resources for a project i’ve been building but have got basically no response from neither CF or EM who both state (for some reason) to be responsible for the same thing redundantly.

so for fundamental reasons a rethinking and restructuring needs to happen.

#35

care to link to it? that ought to help.

#38

Please forward a link to these. I have not seen them

#39

days after charles condemns the post “guardians” hostile actions, the “guardians” twitter account has now been restricted/suspended.

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is this the sort of self appointed unaccountable behaviour of a few that were to allow to define our community?

and before it’s insinuated, i had nothing at all to do with this (i can only assume that for it to get to this point there must have been a lot of reports against the account and its tweets) or any of the youtube videos painting our entire community in a negative light.

#40

This is the beautiful thing of an open-source, decentralized protocol. Any group can anoint themselves as representatives of Cardano, but their words only have power if the community backs them. What would have happened if they put out a petition that only 42 people signed? Probably not a lot. They are a voluntary group that only has power if the community gives them power. In my opinion, it is a very fair and just way for the members of the Guardians to voice their opinions.

#41

it means the strategy is working :slight_smile:

#42

@misteraxyz remember that twitter is centralized platform and and boot accounts easy can be programed to spam report accounts not based on if they post truths or lies but based on how many spam reportings it gets from other users within a time frame. The action taken by twitter admins doesnt say anything about the validity of the content, amount of supporters or the group behind the account.