My bad, I meant the amount of ADA.
I donât really agree @PhirePhlame
Small pool are not attractive to stakers since they are not sure to produce reward every epoch. We all know itâs the same in the long game, but to the average delegator thatâs gameover (and understandably).
So now you have the social media gurus and kings of people attractions that have absolutely no interest in Cardano AND no other benfit than popularity. Those, sadly, will be successful pools as all their followers/community will delegate to them. Once they pass the 5-10M mark they become attractive to the average joe.
The system, in my humble opinion, is currently broken. Good, smart, technical people are kept at the favor of famous/popular ones.
I guess IOHK is kinda happy with that as it spreads the Cardano word around. But at some stage (and I think the stage is reached now), the model will have to change to benefit people investing time, work and gatting real results.
I didnât mention the rich/poor, as I think that have nothing to do in the debate. Itâs not so much who you are, but rather what you bring.
Iâm pretty sure IOHK intentionally designed the network to require large amounts of stake to keep the network from growing to large to quickly. Pretty sure I heard that in an interview a few years ago. So in other words the early pool operators, in a sense, got the priority. So as long as they continue to operate the poolâŚbut new pool operators later on down the epoch would have a higher barrier to entry due to ADA value growth. However, I believe itâs time for this monetary policy to change. Especially since there is a focus on Africa and other countries where citizens may not have access to funding. Otherwise ADA is just another FIN technology creating little kingdomsâŚis that what Libertarianism is all about?..lolâŚyes. Ask the Koch brothers. IOHK needs to keep in mind that this could come across/be perceived as contemporary digital colonialism in Africa and other developing nations.
Well historical pools deserve what they have, itâs not about picking from them really.
The k factor is currently pushing toward 500 pools, and soon 1000. There is heaps of room to get serious pools getting a fair share for what the bring (again as opposed to what I call parasite pools, or boobs pools).
The pool ecosystem is not really able to self regulate, we can see it now. Big players having 40 pools, parasite exploiting shamelessly the work of others, etc âŚ
50% of delegated value could be decided by the network. The other 50% being up to you.
Those network attributed delegations could be divided among top k factor (500 currently) on clear, pragmatical, cardano beneficial facts (ie. uptime, time to new release, missed blocks, ping, etc âŚ).
This way good pool battling to get better would be rewarded fairly, and if you want to delegate to boobs pools you are still able to do it. But the balance wouldnât be so ridiculously twisted âŚ
I donât understand the what difference is when a pool that has 20 million staked versus a pool that has 10 thousand staked is running with the same uptime and system resource data processing performance. How does a newer lower staked amount pool âget betterâ other then counting on the technical and Cardano ignorance of would be delegators?..apart from maybe taking out a multi million dollar loan from a bank in order to get blocks sooner so people will think itâs a âbetterâ pool? To clarify my question specificallyâŚHow does a staking amount technically make a pool better then another other then inducing the favor of an arbitrary algorithm towards the pool with the most ADA staked? Staking amount doesnât make the pool perform itâs ADA network node function any better or any more secure then the next pool.
Yeah well we agree, we just donât formulate it the same way.
So what you are challenging is the block assignation based on the staked ADA on a pool.
I get you, but in the current system you have to limit it with something otherwise pool would proliferate like crazy. Hence my proposal of a shortlist based on facts to get a fair share of 50% global stake for k factor. and 50% made of people delegating.
Many donât agree with me. But Iâm speaking facts, and Iâm speaking from my own personal experience. You must be rich, famous, provide massive value to the community, or grind like I did with family/friends/word of mouth delegates.
I tried competing with the OGâs/whale SPOs on Twitter. It was futile lolâŚ
I fully agree @PhirePhlame, with few little precisions.
Providing value to the community does help at all in the current system. Not at all !
The current system is only based on fame, and that is the issue. Current big pool owner becoming very protective of the current broken system, too much money involved make peoples says stupidities.
Most of the OG deserve their slot, as they, most of the time, are active contributors and Single Pool Owners they do make the heart of the decentralization system.
The heart of the problem is that ALL the delegating power are at the mercy of marketing and cynicism. It makes it flow were the marketing and fame is pushing it, not where it would benefit the network the most.
There is currently no such thing, factually, as a good pool. A good pool is one that got delegated ADA, even if that pool brings NOTHING to the ecosystem, and is not properly managed toward making decentralization better in any way or form.
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I hear you, but @Alexd1985 works on this forum like a madman. He just got CF and IOG delegations at the same time. And he even had a decent size delegation before that from just grinding here.
I agree with everything you stated except he part about bringing value to the community doesnât help at all. Trust me, it does.
Many SPOs are between 5-25M delegated just from grinding with Cardano Forum, creating Cardano apps and tools, running technical advice Discords, Cardano comedic sketches, infographicsâŚ
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Yes ok you can find cases where it does help and @Alexd1985 is a great example of that.
Helping the community in that sense, when it is visible and supporting people can work as, once again, it brings you a sort of fame. But this one well deserved, Alex deserve everything he got.
Working in the shadows and doing some more technical work makes you less visible but nonetheless useful. This is not rewarded at all in the current model.
Our pool had the chance of being granted the IOG delegation last quarter. And I just discovered how the CF delegation is working, so we will work toward this.
The fact that those delegation exist prove that the model is so imperfect that it needs such âpatchsâ.
The CF delegation seems to address the problem a bit better, but in the long run the model got to be reviewed.
Perhaps the problem come from me but as much as Iâm very happy to bring my time, skills, knowledge and expertise in Cardano. Iâm absolutely not ready to waste my, and people, time grinding delegators through social medias.
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I wouldnât call it fame in that sense. I donât think >10% of CT knows what goes on in here. I believe that itâs just a numbers game. Go outta your way to help 1,000 people, and 10% will choose your pool to delegate to. BOOM. 100 delegates.
The apps/tools/infographics/etc garner more fame, IMHO. And working in the shadows is not the most efficient way to gain delegates. Sadly, thatâs also how I like to operate. Plus, grinding delegators through social media is enough to drive one insane.
Everyday thereâs a âHey guys! Iâm new to Cardano! Which pool should I delegate to?â Followed by 100 SPOs liking/retweeting/following/begging. Even 40-50M+ pools and MultiPools. Iâm like âHow much money is enough?!?â lol. Honestly, Iâd be content with a block/epoch. I canât believe that most of SPOs think that those Twitter posts are genuine, and not fishing for interaction/followersâŚ
Seems like weâre in the same boat. My plan is to continue to get delegations from friends/family/followers. Once I get CF or IOG, work like a madman to grab 1M more over those 3 months. And make sure that I bring enough value to them that they stay after IOG /or CF leaves.
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Thank you guys for the kindly words; All u said above is true ⌠unfortunately
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I watch the statistics on pooltool.io for my stake pool. It shows that the chances of my pool making a block changes daily. It fluctuates somewhere between <1% and 2% chance. Even though the staked amounts remain the same on my pool and the system capacity and availability are more then the Cardano network would ever needâŚlol. Skin in the game? It doesnât matter. There is zero risk in running a Cardano poolâŚin fact I can argue I have more skin in the game then pools that have millions of $ stakedâŚI have to pay for the resources to run my pool out of my own pocket because it makes zero blocks per epoch but still contributes to the network with the same or better technical resources then pools with millions staked. Pools that have the most money staked on them make the blocks. Itâs selection by financial exclusivity.
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Why does it need to be important to advertise to get delegators? Why does the douchebag advertising mentality need to play a role here? Why shouldnât the Cardano network just allow people to delegate to the network and then have it randomly delegate to an active pool or maybe 100 active pools or better yet across all active pools during that epoch? IOHK wouldnât even need to change their block reward algorithm yet this would be a more fair method in the spirit of leveling the playing field. Think of it as Cardano BingoâŚwhy the F not? Why make it Cardano richy rich club only?
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Sadly, PoW/PoS have always been selection by financial exclusivity.