Who uses Cardano? Who are you people? (And good-bye)

Haskell programmers, mostly?

BTW, I decided to give up on Cardano. It’s not that I don’t know Haskell. I do, or rather did (up to, but not including monads). Solidity is a better language IMHO, because it can use effects. I think the creator of Plutus admitted that purity was a misfeature long ago. But I’m not trying to start a debate here.

Anyway, I gave Plutus a try in a VM after watching some tutorials on YouTube. Here are my impressions:

CONS:

  • The complexity is offensive. No other word for it. Simple things should be simple. There should be one, and preferably only one obvious way of doing things. Cardano took this motto and did the opposite, with its cacophony of stake pools, side chains, datum (is that even a word?), “extended” UTXOs, etc. etc. It’s not that the complexity could not be overcome. I’m sure it can all be learned. I just find it distasteful.
  • On top of that, all this complexity seems to be poorly documented. Even when you follow instructions the best way you can, they often don’t work.
  • cardano.org says “send funds to anyone, anywhere”. I don’t think this is accurate, since there are people that just don’t get crypto, so while e.g. I can send cardano to my friend in a different country, My mom was not able to get her birthday present this year. Moreover, the price of Cardano seems to depend on other cryptos without requiring them in any way. I kind of knew this line was misleading going in, but still, let me register my complaint.
  • I’ve learned that Bitcoin can achieve smart contracts too, which is a cons for Cardano, since everything is relative.
  • The Cardano summit talk that you all loved had the opposite effect on me. Who the heck gets upset that his blockchain supports simple, reliable transactions out of the box?! Who finds this relatable? Or the best talk they ever watched? People very different from me, I guess. I like it when stuff works.

PROS:

  • This community here is obviously a plus. I don’t think there is a blockchain with nerdier users.

Anyway, bye, and thanks for trying to help. I might pop back if I change my mind, but I probably won’t.

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We’ll be here, always welcome.

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If you look at the history of programming languages, you can see that not the safest and cleanest programming languages have prevailed.

Example: With the programming language Ada it is possible to develop much safer and more stable programs than with C/C++. Ada is therefore still used today in the military sector. But in most companies C/C++ and other languages have prevailed.
So how to convince the developers of Haskell?

Solidity is much easier for most developers to learn. If you have ever programmed in a C-like programming language, you can learn Solidity in a few days.
And it works. Although Solidity not a nice language.

I would be very surprised if soon masses of blockchain developers learn Haskell successfully. History doesn’t bode well.

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I’d rather compare Solidity with Marlowe. It’s just that development of Marlowe has not finished yet. Once people compare with Marlowe you’ll see how much better it is compared to Solidity. Even better, there’s going to be a library of standard trading vehicles for Marlowe. That’s already in development.
IMO the era of dApps on Cardano just started. And there’s so much to discover…

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I find this discussion as an investor quit relevant… I will investigate further in to developers giving up on Cardano. I want to believe and will give it time.

:rofl:
Here are developers git hub commits for just this week:
Commits
That’s 2,534 in one week. Cardano is always in top of dev commits. The number of devs is constantly increasing. First 2 Plutus Pioneer programs trained over 5,000 new devs. Cardano is currently developing resources to support these devs, After that they will start on support for other languages for all those that can’t do Haskell. That however will take over a year. First priority will be (and should be) Plutus/Haskell support and resources.

Bye :wave:

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I agree with your sentiment that Haskell/Plutus and Cardano generally does have a high barrier of entry and this could be a problem for mass adoption. What I do not agree with is you are equating something that is difficult or complex as a con or negative. Haskell was chosen because it is a programming language that provides high assurance rooted in mathematics. This is something you would want when dealing with global financial transactions and governance. The cacophony of all the “complex stuff” have been fully researched with the understanding that they provide the best trade offs for building a scalable, secure blockchain. I am sorry that all of this difficulty has discouraged you, however, I would like to offer you something to think about. You mention the following:

Solidity is a better language IMHO, because it can use effects.

Is Solidity in your opinion better simply because you are used to programming in a particular style? You actually can use effects in Haskell, it’s just that Haskell deals with effects differently, mainly as Monads. Also, another thing to think about. If the only reason you are fleeing Cardano for something “easier”, what does that imply about the blockchain you are fleeing to?

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How often is Haskell used in the fintech space?
If you search for Fintech programming languages you will find such lists:

https://thecodest.co/blog/top-programming-languages-for-fintech-companies/

https://www.bankersbyday.com/programming-languages-banking-finance-fintech/

Great things take time because the foundations have to be strong, otherwise they will quickly buckle due to the rushed building which included fractures or flaws, I see the slower evolution as a positive of Cardano.

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It’s just that crypto and block chain tech is neither fintech nor banks. And - btw. your charts don’t represent reality as - especially in the banking sector - most developments don’t disclose details.

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The fact is Haskell is not very popular among programmers and companies. Since 1990.
A company that uses C++ in critical areas uses special standardized test procedures to test the quality of the software.
Why don’t they just use Ada or Haskell?
For example, Vyper (more secure) is not as popular as Solidity. Why?

I 100% agree with you. As I mentioned the barrier of entry for Haskell is really high and this is a problem for mass adoption among programmers. However, the fact that it is not widely used does not mean it is not well suited for mission critical software. The lack of adoption is just a consequence of its steep learning curve, lack of awareness and education. I do see some changes coming though. Cardano has definitely brought more awareness to Haskell and the software industry in general is moving towards a more functional programming paradigm. This is evident in how many mainstream languages are adopting functional programming concepts such as anonymous functions in JavaScript or lambda expressions in Java.

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Haskell is not as obscure as many here seem to think. Lots of universities start their curricula with functional programming for a reason and Haskell clearly is the most comprehensive and successful ecosystem among the purely functional languages.

Functional programming did not need some crypto currency project to get picked up in mainstream ecosystems. Scala has been there since 2004, F# since 2005. Lambda calculus was introduced in the 1930s and everyone with a proper computer science degree and not merely some coding bootcamp training should really have heard of it.

There are also quite some uses of Haskell in industry:
https://haskellcosm.com/

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BTW you may want to check this out: https://twitter.com/Milkomeda_com/status/1455383468100231173

If you have any dApp ideas be great time to get them out and have first mover advantage…

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Hi, I use cardano but not now cardano needs to help me first to or get my wallet working on my new phone, and the 2cond I need the new wallet I create to work because I put funds on it but it does not allow to delegate because it argues that my spending pass is not correct it’s been a big pain to deal with the centralise exchange and their stupid chest the authentificator ill spent over 3 hours and had to wait like a fuking idiot… cambiar de Telefono no es un puto pecado… l

So we’re cai I find support

Hi,

Do u have the seed words for yoroi (guessing u are using yoroi) 15 seed words?

If yes try to restore the wallet on your new phone

download yoroi app (from official sources) → open yoroi → add wallet → restore → write the seed words (15 words) → set the wallet name + spending pssword (can be same as ur wallet from old phone)

If the seed words used is correct after this operation u should see your balance and u will can perform transactions.

Cheers,

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Hi yes my big problem now is I can’t delegate my adas and just want to know are my gonna lose that can I contact support… so it says my spending pass is not correct it says so I can’t move my money soo wat it is next?
My money will be there forever ?
Are my going to be able to do somting?
Were can I get support for yoroi

If u can’t remember the spending password u must restore the wallet (using the 15 words seed) and set a new spending password

To contact the support team:

open yoroi → settings → application → support → report a problem → fill the form

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Then just build with Solidity on Cardano using the Milkomeda sidechain which is approaching beta release. It will also be more performant than solidity contracts on ethereum .

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interview on Milkomeda sidechain bringing EVM compatibility to Cardano.
https://youtu.be/7bgi1YqJlto

Cardano will also be onboarding all major programming languages
thanks to the K-framework (https://kframework.org/) by Runtime Verification (@rv_inc)…
(mid to longer term):

Python
C
C++
C#
Golang
Javascript
PHP
Swift
.NET
Objective-C
Rust
Scala
…and more