Will ADA Whales Ever Give Up Their Power?

I would say more - if address with lots of tx are owned by exchanges, and the rest by the whales - look how none of them sold their ada - or I am wrong? and the bad whales are dumping ? :roll_eyes:
you will always have a 1 % of 10% - but with time they all sell, we will sell, ALL will sell - cos this is how the market works

It’s not FUD, just a consequence of starting a project in this way. I know if I made some investment three years ago and the markets told me I was worth millions, I would want to realize some of that gain. Wouldn’t you? Those 180,000 have very small positions. Ironically the (somewhat racist) notion that “japanese hodl”, if true, will make it worse. The market cap will be 5% of the market churning, while the rest hodl forever. :slight_smile: Other cryptos have a similar distribution, just not as extreme.

I gave you specific numbers but you still keep on your ideas - good luck mate

How is that racist??? On the contrary I find it very positive and respectable, that’s why they are known to be a sophisticated country.

Regarding the power of whales I would think they have 2 methods of power within the system. one is the ability to manipulate price based on selling large numbers of shares and the other is through control of the voting and consequently treasury system. Not much can be done about the price manipulation part unless there is some provisions now or in the future about selling schedules. Regarding the voting shouldn’t we wait to see what kind of proposal is put forth regarding how that is to be handled? Perhaps a mechanism is being studied and considered that somehow mitigates the whale dilemma withing the liquid democracy framework? I would think that Charles and co would have considered this issue. Regardless thanks for bringing the topic up.

The numbers at that link agree with the original post. So you agree with the original poster then? Because it sounded before like you didn’t.

I do not think there will be price manipulation, you can see from the link the accounts are all “1 transaction”, i.e. hodl. But later when there is voting on projects (perhaps including who / what companies will do the work) obviously they will be deciding what happens. Does that bother people? Maybe that’s fair, these guys bought in early, it’s their ship… tbh the idea late comers can re-neg a contract is laughable and total bs.

Why do you think they would vote for something that could damage their own value? :nerd_face: Just the contrary - they will push for an aggresive agenda to pump the price :wink:

Your optimism is adorable. :slight_smile: Of course, I hope you’re right because I really want Cardano to be a viable alternative to fiat.

Of all the issues we must endure with cryptocurrencies (volatility, potential gov regulation, exchange lockups, exchange outages, exchange hacks, constant FUD, etc.), being forced to trust a bunch of anonymous whales is the worst because now we’re dealing with the same oligarchy problems that are destroying our fiat world economy. And now we have a constant looming presence over the entire ADA economy, with everybody chattering and whispering: “What will the whales think? What will they do? How will they vote? Will they like me and my project? How can we kiss their a$$ and beg them to hold onto their ADA to make sure they don’t manipulate/crash the market to hurt us? . . . .”

In fact, the whales will constantly vote against rational safeguards that might reduce their wealth/power/control over the ecosystem. This is just like the most powerful corporations do today with respect to rational industry regulations and labor policies, which they are always sabotaging, which is killing the middle class in many countries.

Yes, without a clear statement from CF, this is the best we can hope for.

It’s difficult to believe that Charles/team did not take this ADA/power concentration problem into account. This is such a basic governance risk; and after watching all the interviews with all the discussion about trust-less systems and decentralized treasury, etc., I assumed this risk was already mitigated with a much more even distribution of ADA during the voucher sale. I should have looked at the distribution sooner, but I was more focused on learning the technical components.

Anyway, maybe the CF team will eventually provide some clarity on these issues. If they don’t, they’re going to lose a lot of the energy in the community because a huge part of what makes Cardano special and exciting (and even fighting a revolution for) is the idea that it will deliver a truly decentralized governance system.


I am sorry mate but you sound like a communist :sunglasses: down with the rich dudes, up with the poor ones :joy:

Like you? or your project?
So, YOu are an haskell developer and wanna update cardano protocol and you need votes from the stakeholders and you dont have them? :roll_eyes::blush:

So the voting is proportional! But, you, a small holder wanna impose a mechanism where the more you own the less power u have ? - this sounds rational to you? how about the whales unite and change the protocol so the small stakeholders have no vote :smiley:
other then fear i see nothing in your posts… if you accept the simple facts - ALL ecosystems have whales! Ada is still young, with time, more andmore ppl will join - this is how networks WORK, they take time!
And if you accept the basic fact - NO OWNER would ever vote against something that could grow the value of ada…
so what should a nice whale do? if its not selling - you’re gonna say the bad whale has bad intentions. if it sells you would say - look the bad whale is dumping…


Quick note: an epoch is about 6 days. 26,000 blocks/slots per epoch. 3 blocks/slots per minute.

I don’t know what Cardano calls it but there is address roll over on each send. If you send 10 ADA from your 1,000 ADA wallet, 990 ADA roll over to a new, previously unused wallet address. This is to say be careful when interpreting the Rich List. I’ll double check on the Binance claim, but the first time I did follow my own Binance transaction to that wallet address.

This was the same assumption I came to. With the thought that another large % have purchased, and moved off exchange.

Me too. It’s my own mistake. Spent yesterday looking through the source code. I always gravitate towards the technology. At the back of my mind, I knew I had heard something about this, but I just assumed the distribution was more even.

Nope, I’m following two projects, caradano and duniter. With Duniter, “Mining” is fairly distributed according to Relative Money Theory.

Dear @Adafans_io You’ve made a lot of false assumptions in your post. You should know by now that I don’t make any claims or discuss any issues unless they’re rooted in empirical facts, historical evidence, and substantive logic. I’m not sure why you made it personal. :confused:

Um, no, dear @Adafans_io. If that’s what you think, then you haven’t really read my original post nor do you understand the fundamental problems with any economy that starts out with whales owning it. You haven’t read the history of corporatism in Nazi Germany or how Mussolini took over Italy with corporate fascism or how corporations in the U.S. have sabotaged the labor market and destroyed rational banking regulations, which causes USD trillions to be destroyed during every unnecessary market crash, which destroys the wealth of the middle class, which destabilizes societies and creates widespread tension and conflict. THAT is caused by concentration of wealth and political power in the hands of a few.

If you think any of this is untrue, then let me know and I will be happy to give you a long list of well-documented books and primary source records to substantiate everything I ever say in this community.

Most people would probably call me a “rich dude”, which is why I understand how “rich dudes” think. And I’m sick of rich dudes controlling our political system, which destroys our economic system. You think that’s communism?

Then your eyes are closed or you’re not understanding my words.

Now I know you never read my original post because I explained all of this in my original post and in several follow-up posts. Regardless, before you accuse somebody of communism and other nonsense, you should read what they have actually written.

Most importantly, what did you think you would accomplish by turning this into a personal confrontation against me? I could call you out for many things, but what’s the point? Unless you can back up your confrontation with verifiable facts and rigorous logic (not just your opinions and false accusations), why not just keep your confrontational comments to yourself so that we can have a more friendly experience together in this community?


Voting and staking should be proportional, anything else is theft. I don’t see @ADALove suggesting it should be any other way, his/her issue is the distribution.

Perhaps you will think I am stupid, but I did not realise the nature of the distribution before reading this thread. I knew it was sold mostly to Japanese, but I thought it was sold to more Japanese. I thought maybe the people with the most had 3 millions ADA or something like that, in fact these individuals have 10s of millions, sometimes 100s of millions. With this distribution, things like “treasury system” and “voting” are only really meaningful to these few people. I won’t lie, I’m disappointed. Retail investment will never be able to change the concentration of power, only entry into the market by hedge funds or corporates could break it up.

I don’t think anyone has done anything “wrong”. It’s like a venture capital startup, early backers take bigger risks and get the lion’s share of the reward. It’s just this is a currency, not a company.


@lovelacepool Just so you know I don’t pull anything out of my butt, the Cardano technical docs say, “a slot lasts 120 seconds, and an epoch has 10×k slots in it, so it lasts 1200 minutes or 20 hours.”

Do you have a different source for the 6 days figure? If so, I guess we should probably figure out why there is a discrepancy in the technical docs.

I thought an proportional response was needed so you stop this whalehunting…

Regarding ancient history (german economy in wwII) you are comparing an deflationary fiat system from another century to a 4 months old SOFTWARE…

And you’re stil missing the point - who’s ada is being sold in the last 4 months? look at the huge volumes during some spikes/dumps

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I think the term currency, despite being widely used, is inadequate to qualify ADA. I believe the term “crypto-assets” would be more adequate, as we will all agree that for now ADA is more a store of value and nothing else in its current state. If it actually was a currency, it would be much less volatile and actually stable, like we discussed in this amazing thread Deflationary structure does not provide incitation for use of money where some interesting solutions have been raised to tackle the volatility issue.

But I’m being a little off-topic here

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If you accept a pile of beans as currency - their currency. Cardano protocol is a SOFTWARE it has a Network (we holders) and a token (that we hold)

@Adafans_io I appreciate your opinions, but it’s difficult to communicate with somebody who over-simplifies so many important issues and makes false accusations about things I never even said. So, I’ll take a break from responding to you now. But I do appreciate your comments most of the time; so it’s nothing personal.

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