An Open Letter to the Cardano Community from IOHK and Emurgo

iohk-blog

#44

Adding to what @Bullish wrote:

If we consider the petitioners as an elite group then we should all be happy because that group is now 1.6K strong :grinning:

As of this post 1,610 people are onboard “the elite group “ by signing the petition.

Please correct me if that is the wrong way to look at this?


#45

The Guardians selected each other as best they could. In my world “ordinary guy” is not an insult, far from it. And being basically ordinary guys, despite having some relevant abilities and experience, we got some things wrong, for which we are sorry. If that’s not good enough for you, too bad.


#46

Everyone has the opportunity to research, look up and investigate what has happened and what is still happening. No one has said that the mission has been completed and all problems have been solved. To be honest: Please show your efforts, bring in your skills and inform people about your (I recommend) proven and reliable results.

No one has denied anyone to think about what happened, to contact other members, to exchange some thoughts, to spend time, to get to know each other, to build and share trust and knowledge. I can say that the last weeks have been incredibly intense, very many very nights,… but also incredibly great things have happened and I have learned a lot.

To be honest, I can’t imagine how you can do that efficiently with any team size. In addition to the trust that had been building up over months, it was also important to have the necessary skills in the growing team and to organize the teamwork and consensus building around the globe, without suffocating in your own discussion.

This was never really about forming an elite group. In fact, there were some rejected ideas because we absolutely wanted to avoid that impression. We didn’t want to stand in the foreground, but the community, whose development we didn’t see sufficiently supported by the management. The last and most difficult decision was whether we should publish as an obscure anonymous group or with our clear names. We decided against the option that in many parts disturbs us so much at the Foundation and its chairman.


#47

Rather than say what you didn’t like, can you please tell us what you would have preferred to see happen instead? I’m not being flippant but I think it’s more clear and constructive for us all to think about if you phrase it that way.


#48

well, you all failed cause that is the resounding impression you gave. i’m really quite puzzled by that seemingly lack of self awareness.

if those really were your intentions, please explain the incompatible manner you went about your actions.

why were these conversations or investigations done secretly behind closed doors amongst yourselves? why did you not engage the wider community? anticipating you claiming that it being public would have led to “covering up of evidence” - how? then why the theatrics? and what appears to have been coordination with iohk/emurgo? from the perspective of a person within the community it seems like there was some hope that the overblown theatrics would translate into price action with the beneficiaries of this information asymmetry - you, the self appointed “guardians”.

again, if those really were your intentions, selflessly representing the community as you claim - please explain the incompatible manner you went about your actions. cause the psychological intentions and motivations math ain’t adding up!

side stepping the dubiousness of…

said the person uses/has used “guardian” power - i mean admin privileges to censor…


#49

therein lies the problem.

i’ll be creating a thread to expand on this.


#51

I am sorry but I cant take you seriously. You come off as someone looking for negatives for the sake of negativity. You ask why the letter where not public yet this exactly what it is at this point, you claim with no shred of evidence guardians wanted to move prices yet ada has been stable on the 0.07 mark. If you want to do something more usefull for the community fact check the open letter and look for errors. These guys are only human and I am sure they made a few mistakes in the 100+ questions and it would be helpfull to correct these.


#53

:point_up_2:this is is the sort of healthy actionable perspective and approach we as a community need to collectively be about. trust but question and verify, always QUESTION AND VERIFY. not just “fudding” or “shilling” like people without minds of their own.


#54

It really is disappointing to see such disheartening division coming from the actions that a few people took to strengthen the community, I kind of get an understanding of the viewpoint of the perceived secrecy but I want to defend the decision that was made to do things behind closed doors and also the decision some of us have made to discuss things in the lounge where a new member cannot participate. I posted the following on July 23rd 2018 in the Lounge.


Had I posted this to general topics first I think some users would have straight away dismissed the idea with their view of how governance should work with the way things were at the present moment, and I would have been defending my position more than I had in the lounge,this topic had some thoughtful feedback within the lounge and with a CF employee even being involved in the conversation, but ultimately by the time it died out I walked away thinking that I am fighting an uphill battle trying to organize anything under the scrutiny of a CF that supposedly has a grand plan and others are supposedly waiting for it, waiting!!!
In my mind there is no time to wait, we need to organize ourselves and come to a consensus on how we hope that this platform will operate, do we want a centralized body to decide how things are done? Should we wait for it all to materialize for us? Do we deserve a decentralized platform just being handed to us? If we do not put some work into this then no, no we do not deserve it, why would we? Cause we bought some ada while it was in development? I have watched so many video’s and read so much of the material and follow social chats and threads that I believe that the community absolutely is a fundamental piece of the operations of what will drive this to be a success, these feelings of mine are why I participated with the other Guardians.

After my post in the lounge was not acted upon at a level that I could be happy with i was looking at other ways to stir up the community to participate in the development of a stronger community,I started to get the idea that something was holding the CF employees back on little issue’s, when I found the opportunity to make a real difference to support the community without the over watch of the CF I took it, and I put my name to the Guardians letter proudly! It was about 4 weeks of collaboration by some very hard workers that spent time away from their families and friends to do this right.

When the Guardians came together it was hard to know who to trust, and there was only 9 people involved! 9! imagine trying to collaborate with 50 people on the letter that came from the Guardians in an open thread like this, I think it would be very very difficult and all 50 people most likely would not put their name to it.

The letter was the first of its kind from the community to challenge the CF leadership and if anyone of us had not spent the time to understand how things were operating at the CF over an amount of time, then that person would never have understood why the rest of us wanted to look into what the hell was going on.
Do not try and tell me that I did things wrong just cause you might have done it different, please.

I am sorry @misteraxyz that the developments do not have your approval, but please… please give me a good suggestion of how you would have done it.
@Risus76 I truly am sorry that you took offense to some of our comments on the announcement thread, we really did not decide until last moment to reveal ourselves, I hope you can move past it without hard feelings.


#55

sure. quite simply really. i wouldn’t have acted in a way that was counter to what i would later say my intentions were.

claim to be for transparency - yet have secret meetings.

claim to be for accountability - yet not be able to make a case for your integrity.

claim to be for inclusion - yet excluded the community in a matter so integral.

whilst i appreciate your attempt to explain your thought process, it relies heavily on an assumption which is largely baseless(i expand on this further on). beside your approach to have it excluding the community ultimately not resulting in the desired result - the reasons before didn’t justify, and the result after even more so just added/add to that very case.

i for one (as well as the few others who’ve come forth in light of all that’s transpired) would have loved to be part of that conversation.

case in point look at the points others and i made on this thread:

not to mention from a numbers game/probability standpoint, the desired result stood a better chance in it being an open public conversation than a private closed one.

the opposite, which you claim, would be true if majority of the community on the forum were against the project - which just isn’t the case. (as is evidenced by majority of threads and posts within them). at best, any opposition would have been from speculators, who are few and far between - especially in cardano comparative to other projects within the space. even they wouldn’t be bothered to engage on a thread of such nature let alone actively oppose it as it does nothing to move the needle either way for what they’re interested in - the short term gains in monetary value.

as you’ve pointed out in your screenshot, you had little intention in staying in the lounge and that you knew that this needs to be a wider community conversation…


#56

I personally feel like you are attacking me and not adding anything of value to the conversation.

My call for community action still stands, and yet you are trying to debase the work that I was a part of.
I can’t help you bud, you would like to stand here and champion how you feel while tearing someone down that took action, and it does not make sense to me.


#57

#becausefeelings is beyond my control.

if you’re feeling attacked i would vouch to guess that you’re reading what i wrote as a subjective criticism of you the person christopher ray - and not objectively as an accountable member within the community who has had closed conversations in the lounge context and the “guardian” context.

here’s what you, i and the community at large general believe and need; transparency, accountability governance and yes we should start modelling how now. where we differ - having closed secret meetings then claiming “not wanting to be elite”.

it’s not just what you do, it’s how you do it.

integrity matters.


#58

First of all: for everyone in this thread providing us with constructive feedback - Thank you.

But unfortunately some people are picking on negativity whilst they seem to forget the bigger cause. It’s making me sad to be very, very honest.

Did you know that:

  • There has been a section on the forum that isnt visible for all users, in which we fought numerous times about improving the ecosystem, mostly providing feedback to the CF and raising our concerns?
  • This goes back for months, not just days?
  • We don’t want to feel special or privileged?
  • We moved IOHK and EM in releasing a letter, not the other way around?
  • We came together and selected each other because we got to know what feelings and concerns we had over the timespan of months discussing in normal Loungecalls and TG channels operated by CF?
  • The timer was setup so that Michael Parsons had the option to reply to our concerns in 3 days, and that we wanted to show that we were very serious about this?
  • We initially wanted to stay anonymous because of possible legal actions (not knowing who would be on our side) but that we decided to put our names on the list to strengthen our position?
  • We indeed tried to form a group that know each other very well - in thoughts, skills and trust.(and don’t even get me started on how many TG messages we’ve generated with this amount. Imagine that the whole Lounge was a Guardian, it just would not work.)
  • We almost had no social life over the last couple of weeks, despite having responsibilities in girlfriends, wives, families and work?
  • We see the Guardians just as a name who shouldnt be here all the time but only when shit hits the fan, and that we continue as the persons we are (please refer to the names in the letter.)
  • It’s very easy to express an opinion when you don’t know the full story. That’s why i am trying to clear some things up here. Or should we all just forget what i have said, delete all the media we’ve generated and just give Parsons a pat on the back and tell him he is doing fine?

It’s not for us, it’s for you - the community.


Criticism and censorship - or the irony, hubris and hypocracy of the self appointed “Guardians”
#59

would these be integrity, transparency and accountability?


#60

ok, how so?


#61

Yes, it is. And i know what you are trying to say - that we are hypocrites. But for us it was the best shot in how we thought to achieve better times.

Because one night of sleep resulted in reading 500+ messages when you’ve woke up, every time. And you could not mis even one of them because you needed to stay updated.


#62

ok, so in the spirit of transparency could these then be made public? or am i and the whole community to just take your word for it?

so is that 500 messages generated in 8 hrs by 8 people?

so that would make ~1500 messages in 24hrs x 14 days minimum as you said the last few weeks were the hectic ones. so that makes ~21,000 messages, minimum.

at any rate, with responses at such a high volume was everyone of the 8 inefficiently reading every message? if so why weren’t tasks/sections delegated? then why was it not modularised and then used something like reddit with voting functionality not implemented? dramatically reducing the input output bandwidth constraints by a factor of at least four fold if not eight.


#63

We will consider it when we’ve achieved what we want - a proper functioning Foundation or entity that will take care of the reason why there should be a Foundation in the first place.

We’ve won the first battle, gathering the community and asking for a change. But this war is not won yet.

We don’t have the option in our channels to measure the exact number of messages everyday. It’s a gross estimate in which we can all confirm that 500+ messages everyday were pretty usual

And regarding our choice for the channels we’ve used - it worked for us. Despite we could have worked more efficiently. And to speak about voting we’ve used “pollbot”. A very nice addition on Telegram to reach consensus with every action we took.


#64

thanks for publically confirming precisely what i’ve been concerned about.


Criticism and censorship - or the irony, hubris and hypocracy of the self appointed “Guardians”
#66

You can be concerned all you want. I’ve tried to give you the best explanation possible.

We, as a community are doing it for the community - that also means you.

I hope you don’t forget to zoom out from time to time, to understand what this is really about.

Have a nice day.