Centralization in Cardano community power?

No, it’s simply the human behaviour (incentives shape human behaviour) especially if the individuals can hide behind some fake identities as there are no consequences.:slight_smile:

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Oh no, I do not have and have never had a FB and Twitter account.:wink: I think linkedin would do better, as that’s already filtered.

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I fully read it.
Interesting, but nothing new relating to the human behaviours.

Anyway, I would like to see some similar docs from the Group B either.

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Hi Bert!

Here’s the requested screenshot of your flagged post.
As you can see, it was reviewed by a moderator and the flag was declined.

I have reviewed the same post and though I do agree that the tone can be perceived as a little hard, the user deepau is still making valid discussion points. In the occasion that discussion posts aren’t black and white, we tend to lean towards keeping posts as it is better than censoring. Let me know if you have further questions on this flagged but as you stated, hopefully we can finish this. :slight_smile:

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@maki.mukai many thanks for sharing the history of that flag.

We are now waiting on you with @tom.kelly to make any official statement on the issue in the headline of this thread in respect to:

  • actions to be taken
  • consequences
  • lessons learned

Once you make such a statement or simply tell you don’t plan to make any statement like that we can close this thread here.

Many thanks :pray:

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Pal,
I can’t speak for group B, I can only give my own personal opinion. Reflecting back on the Guardians effort, it had very little impact on Parsons’ resignation.

The whole Guardians effort was just a smoke screen that put public pressure on Parsons. I thought it was a significant effort at the time back in 2018, but now that I look back on it, the Guardians effort was just noise. The aftermath is more noise.

I honestly believe the only reason Parsons resigned was due to legal actions. Just my opinion.

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That has always been my impression of it as well. The self-importance shown by some members of the Guardians is very much real though

Yeah i feel the same Rick. We werent so much of a deal for him.

Anyways, he’s gone. And that’s what counts.

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Sorry to say but the last few comments are very disappointing and seems that there are some bitter pills been swallowed. Effort is effort and needs to be commended, it’s called sweat equity. Hello ’ smoke screen that put public pressure on Parsons’ Well it then did it’s job.

I don’t know any of you but you sure making it easy to see through the smoke.
Lets have a answer and then start all over again with the right attitude from all.

This is getting very disappointing.

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There was tremendous effort, commitment and very very very serious personal sacrifices to make this “smoke screen” possible you refer to. Well obviously as we already know not on your side (Rick reading up two letters in your videos, Andy sharing his dinner pictures) and most of the Group B buddies who come here and tell our efforts were nothing.

What I find funny though that most Group B guys are promoting their “Guardian of Cardano” relation on their Twitter account :slight_smile:

The important & interesting thing here was the governance conflict of having one side who invested significantly more effort into a startup, but were less in headcount being outplayed in dirty politics, actions & lies, when searching for the future path of the Guardians. Then once the Guardians collapsed and Group A decided to move on with the Watchdogs and leave things behind, a member of Group B comes on the Forum with another dirty game being supported by a few members of his Team.

We are not naive and all aware there must have been quite intenstive background operations, by lawyers, which set the real pressure for Parsons. Though never forget Parsons resigned just the day before the public protest was announced & organized for Mainelli´s yearly Blockchain Summit in City of London. We did touch some really sensitive points with his close friends, when exposing their network (from your video you obviously clearly didn´t get), who might have also put pressure on him.

We don´t care about credits, self-importance or fame and don´t need any sort of benefits from IOHK/CF/Emurgo, that´s more like you (@rickymac Cardano Effect, @Andy_Hendrikx & @RobJF & @werkof Cardano Ambassadors). We want to enjoy our independence (!) as a Group and just want to do what we believe in and be left alone, not hunted by Group B and it´s quite extensive influential network in the Cardano Ecosystem. You are simply killing our time and distracting us, which we hate. Our interest & incentives lie in the following order: (a) heavy ADA investment in Cardano (b) believe in the Cardano dream and it´s potential superior impact it may have on our society (c ) respect Charles as a leader with strong integrity, giving his full heart & passion to the venture.

What do you actually want from us Rick?

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I would like to see proof for this claim.

@bercinho Maki posted an overview yesterday of what is expected from people when participating in this forum. I’ll quote it so you don’t forget it.

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@Andy_Hendrikx we are just waiting for any official announcement from the Community Team on this issue we had. I hope you realize this. Then hopefully we can all move on again. Thanks

Btw looking at the Community Rules you do realize you can insult a person or group in many ways, and what you and Rick said was a well planted indirect insult.

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That is absolutely not relevant here Bertalan. You said this:

Ok. Now tell me where you have the proof of your claim that we supported him. Otherwise edit your message and rectify that statement.

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And this is a not so well thought out assumption and accusation.

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You are cherry picking whatever you may argue and not reacting on the argument.

Everyone of you who read that particular Thread and thought it´s ok to have this kind of dirt on the Forum supported this action this way or the other. Please share the logs in public to have clarity who read it. Everyone of you who doesn´t distance himself from that Thread, but rather challenges our claim for resolution here is also supporting it. It´s hard to believe you Guys in a daily touch on TG in the same group, where we had hundreds of messages didn´t speak about it. But sure this point is a reasonable speculation so fair enough I will rephrase it as “by a few members”.

But let´s not loose the focus here, what will you do to resolve the issue? For 2 days now we have a complete ignorace of the problem. Let´s have the Community Management Team write here their final statement on (1) actions to be taken (2) consequences (3) lessons learned or just write there won´t be such a statement.

Now please let´s stop any other discussions until their closure statement on the thread as it doesn´t take us anywhere. Many Thanks

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Puh, what a mess.

1.) I really had to lough about the Text of @DogWatch aka @RobJF. Very nice satirical text.

2.) Especially @bercinho seems to be offended by it. But why? If it’s just satire or even trolling, why don’t you just lough it away?

3.) @RobJF writing as @DogWatch is using an anonymous account which should always offend the community and be sanctioned by the community. Maybe some days of forum holiday would be appropriate?

4.) Very often the @cardanowatchdogs group account is used for personal messages of one of its members as it was the same for the @GuardiansOfCardano account. I see this as writing anonymously and hiding behind the group. I don’t like that at all and I think that the community should set clear rules here.

5.) What about that “Wanted” image? I didn’t find a post of @RobJF posting it. Can I assume that it was created and posted from @bercinho himself? This is completely different from the harmless satirical text of @RobJF. “Wanted dead” is something which should not be tolerated in the forum in my opinion.

6.) My proposal: Additionally to flagging inappropriate text, we should directly answer to the inappropriate post with a link to the forum rules or a standard netiquette. Maybe that helps more than just a disappearing post because of flagging.

7.) There should be equal of less than one primadonna in each workgroup.

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Regarding #4 I assure you these are not only Bercinho’s opinions but mine as well and I assume other members as well.

You have to be joking me regarding wanted post one is clearly humor and not directed at any person while other is directed at cardanowatchdogs and with intent beyond humor.

Not only that but with moderator action only when troll was revealed. This while same troll user has been free to discuss on ex guardians while a watchdogs thread on the same was locked. Also just notice ex guardians here putting in all the negativity they can. Clear example saying guardians had no influence on Parsons resigning. He resigned the day before community where showing up in London if I am not mistaken and if anything it rallied 6k members to a petition and show of support. These are stabs taken on people who pulled theyre heart out for Cardano of people who did very little of the heavy lifting (can be documented so not unfounded.)

Meanwhile serious issues like rolling out ambassador program or growing forum community is at a deadstill and shrinking (active users) respectively. Little is happening even while many parts of the community wants to engage. Yes there are bright spots as well but so far from the potential that is here. And we ask questions because we care.

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The first reaction is always the honest reaction and there is a reason, shows the severity of the issue that @RobJF immediately offered to step down from the Ambassador role. Now let’s give him a couple of days off from Forum and everting is back to normal? You can also see the reaction from @werkof, which speaks for itself.

IMO Cardano Ambassador should be something special, a role model, someone who has unquestionable integrity, good morals & ethics. Someone who puts the interest of Cardano ahead of selfish games and is not caught up in such ugly wrongdoing.

But the standards & principles for our Community and these Community roles are not for us to decide as obviously we strongly disagree upon them, it should be something then the Community Management Team comments on as stated above. It’s a great responsibility and we will remember their decision. I understand it’s hard as they are very close with the people in question here. But you have to “follow the principles and not people”!

IMO you can try to belittle and understate the situation, but it suggests either you don’t know the entire context & history (which is absolutely forgivable considering the length far beyond this thread) or you are somehow personally related, affected or influenced (you wouldn’t be the first such a Guy turning up on this thread).

Your message aims to be a nice plea (no wonder @RobJF liked it in seconds after you posted), but to me feels very artifical and as a lame excuse telling this was all just a good joke and I have no sense of humor.

You also touch topics that has absolutely no relevance to the happenings, which is quite suspicious.

When I look at the truly exceptional people, the brilliant minds, amazing personalities at IOHK and then look at the dirt, toxicity & politics here, it’s two different universes, the contrast is incredibly aching and I wish we had something just a tiny little close to it in terms of creative, friendly, fun & healthy environment.

So I kindly ask again the Cardano Community Team, @maki.mukai and @tom.kelly to comment on the situation in terms of (1) actions to be taken (2) consequences (3) lessons learned.

Also ask others to wait for their official statement or their comment that there won’t be any such statement.

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That’s ok and can be true, or maybe not, but it does not matter.
But, personal opinion does matter for me and as my ‘always actual’ favofite quote says:
“I do not give a f*ck, despite I respect them, for any personal opinions, beliefs or religions (including politics). Show me the unbiased data instead and I will decide.”

Do not get me wrong I am not with neither side, but that’s the fact that @bercinho put tremendous effort into it especially for untying Parson’s connections (it took me a lot of time to understand that complex graph) which could or might be not, lead to some legal actions.

Have Guardians had some impact on Person’s resignation (e.g; due to so some Psychological pressure or by some other factors)? Who knows? But, I would say yes (based on the information I could gather).
And thinking probabilistically, it could have a chance. Anyway, what you or I believe does not have any impact on the hidden and unknown facts that have happened and led Parson to resign.

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Thanks _lap for taking an objective look at the data available and with balanced discussion of your interpretation.

I can only speak for myself that did a smaller part but I appriciate you noticing the work that went into that and I ask no more than anyone seeing our discussions to only form an opinion (if they wish) after looking at the documentation provided.

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