Centralization in Cardano community power?

[Mihori]

To @rickymac @RobJF @Andy_Hendrikx @werkof:

No matter how we shared different opinions regarding the past incidents, how we have different opinions regarding @bercinho.

I do respect what you guys did for the community, as I can always see you guys’ countless responses and helps from TG and forums.

While you guys are a IOHK paid/sponsored podcast host and some moderators/admins in TG/Reddits/Forum, you guys did build a nice relationship with community management team like @tom.kelly and other members from IOHK/Emurgo/CF, and probably already secured a few future ambassador positions.

However, we are just starting from the scratch again.

Therefore, I really do not want to see this kinda fight going to a personal level. I’m not asking for peace, just let’s fight in a reasonable manner.

I know it’s very easy for you guys to isolate someone now, please just don’t extend things to that level.

Please, and thank you.

[Josseh80]

Apparently the position of Cardano Ambassador is a wanted one. I haven’t really looked into what qualifications a Cardano Ambassador needs to have, but I highly doubt the behavior as shown by some people in this topic qualifies as “Ambassadorish behavior”

If I wasn’t so hooked on the Cardano project already and this would be the first topic I had read coming into this community, I would get out of here as soon as possible and look for another project…

This is not only starting to look bad for the people in here with ambassador ambitions, but it’s also starting to look bad for the project as a whole… Think about the impression you leave on the people that come on here as newcomers…

[Mihori]

Let’s hope this is just a transition period! Things will get better tomorrow.

No pain no gain!

[Eystein_Hansen]

@Herr_Rossi

Im not joking. Robins text is absolutly exaggerated but doesn’t say anything directly about the watchdogs. Everything in this direction just happens in your own brain. At the “wanted dead” image that’s very different. It’s says very explicitely “Wanted dead…Cardano Watchdogs…”

Rob withdrew from the thread so it was not in my head, be resonable. And while indirect every single sentance was directed at cardanowatchdogs as anyone who followed the discussion saw. Nobody protested when Rob said he would withdraw ambassadors.

When it comes to the wanted poster maybe it was not a nice touch but my point was that it was not directed at anyone. It did not say “wanted dead or alive by ex guardians” for example. I think from a logic standpoint there is a difference between someone paraphrasing watchdogs to dogwatchers vs not targeting someone with his message. That was my point. I also agree with you you absolutely seem neutral in this case from what I have read from you so far. I simply wanted to make a point that there was a difference between the two actions. (Not to mention that one followed the other and not the other way around.)

Apart from that agree with the rest of your post.

[Eystein_Hansen]

@Josseh80 and others maybe this is relevant: I do not want any ambassador position and would like to contribute to the community without such a position. Especially now that I have forwarded criticism it would not be a good thing for me to join such an organisation in such a way as there would always be lingering questions on all of this. I think it is very important to also highlight there are many great work by ambassadors. I only have a problem with someone focusing more on attacking community members than forwarding Cardano and being good role models for Cardano ecosystem. While rickymac’s post is for me makes me very sad I can differentiate between his quarrel between Bercinho and all the great work he is doing with Cardano Effect. I do not respect the guy, but I respect his work for Cardano. As far as I can see most of the other ambassadors are also doing great work so I just want to make that distinction in this debate. But it is also important to tackle this issue as it will just keep lingering on if we do not and I will be very disappointed if there is no actions taken after all of this. So I ask as the others:

Cardano Community Team, @maki.mukai and @tom.kelly to comment on the situation in terms of (1) actions to be taken (2) consequences (3) lessons learned.

[bercinho]

It´s just funny, that no one invited or forced Rick to come here into this Thread, he was not even in the context of the discussion.

Then he got nervous when I asked to have transparency and release the logs to verify who & when saw, and like this directly or indirectly supported the ugly offensive post of @RobJF shared in the headline of this Thread. He claimed such a release of information would infringe on his privacy (note the forum.cardano.org server is in the US, no GDPR yet), but admitted he was reading it.

Upon request of @ishleh I have shared the story of the Watchdogs, our origin & history from the Guardians of Cardano.

Then he shared his opinion “The whole Guardians effort was just a smoke screen”, “Guardians effort was just noise”, which was totally false.

Now suddenly he tells me “You are harassing me” and “Stay away from me on this forum” and I will be reported if I post on his threads on this forum.

So I guess I can´t write questions anymore for Cardano Effect (sponsored by IOHK)? Well last time I did add 20+ questions (https://www.reddit.com/r/thecardanoeffect/comments/a32no2/john_oconnor_director_of_african_operations_for/) and the softest & least interesting one was asked by him in the end.

The real issue I see is while IOHK does have a very professional & strict hiring capability (a big achievement of their HR director), that allowed for them to build a worldclass organization, this is not the case with all the Cardano Community Roles.

I think it´s very dangerous to give away fancy titles like “Cardano Ambassador”, without such high quality hiring capability. Imagine people putting this on their LinkedIn Profile and then caught acting like a few of them here damaging the brand. It would be more appropriate to have the title as “Community Worker” and have the “Cardano Ambassador” title to be earned over a period of time following good service and spotless reputation.

I think the most important thing for the Cardano Foundation would be to reach out to IOHKs HR Director for help and hire very professional, highly skilled, top talent Community Managers with proven successful career to strengthen & support the current Community Management Team and let us recognize their own identity & voice, which should drive things for the better and quickly & efficiently intervene in such situations.

It would be good to have this hiring before the Cardano Ambassador / Community Worker and the Cardano Hubs programs are fully rolled out, actually before the working process starts on them.

IMO currently they struggle and fall apart in many areas, while their “weakness” is an opportunity for others to exploit. It really feels now like they are not in control, rather “run by” some of the Ambassadors. The title of this Thread by @Mihori is very accurate in this context.

Let´s put also one more thing in line with the statement from @Eystein_Hansen. The Watchdogs are not looking for positions in the Ecosytem, we want to enjoy independence (but more will come once we finish with our mission statement, governance protocol and may officially kick off). We have even created a separate movement and resigned from the opportunity, after it was leaked at Plutusfest that the Cardano Foundation is thinking to put one of the Guardians of Cardano on the Board. See that story here: https://forum.cardano.org/t/cardano-social-council-introduction

[ishleh]

I agree with you @bercinho and didn’t like what i read in the document, the situation is uglier, actually it’s quite chocking
Sincerely thank you @bercinho for your efforts, I really appreciate
I had the same impression that when I commented about this situation from your response and others, I knew little bit who really matter! Yet didn’t expect such behaviour from the others
Anyways thanks

[ishleh]

If such behaviour is allowed here in the forum is very bad, now giving someone with such behaviour the Embassadors title would be catastrophic
Something like shooting one own foot
As @bercinho pointed out it should be people with impeccable reputation to evoque confidence and trust … I think it’s quite logic

[Infin8]

Charles addresses TPS deeply in the latest AMA - the future is bright.

[_ilap]

@Josseh80

Ambassadorish behavior

Again, no any news, “Jane Elliot” already pointed out this kind of behaviours in 1968.

I love Social Psychology, however, I do not have any formal degree on this field, but my wife.
But, I was soaking these kinds of information and we were often studing together during her studies.

That’s why I am against on any tribalism, religion, “sports fan”, etc. as what they can perfectly do is to
split the ppl to We and Them.
Also, against any kind of centralisation of power which leads to corruption, with no exception, when it reaches a certain threshold.

@bercinho

“Community Worker” and have the “Cardano Ambassador” title to be earned over a period of time following good service and spotless reputation

Fully, agree. And earned by not a small group of elites (admins or ambassadors), but by the community, and of course, easily revoked and renewed if it’s necessary.

[knysna]

I liked this by accident, defiantly do not like the tone of this moderator. Can you edit your like or does it stay put.

[knysna]

I want you to stop behaving in such a manner permanently rick. I do not like the way you are performing, it is annoying.I find it rather strange that someone presenting the Cardano effect podcast to behave in a manner which i am sure the CF/IMHO or Emurgo partnership or any PR or HR company worth their salt would approve of.
I would like to let you know very clearly rick. That any post started on this forum is a privilege loaned to the user by Cardano and the community as a whole. There is no entitlement or demanding policy that is allowed as this would only create more dictatorial behaviour, especially if it is orchestrated or collaborated which simply put is very very naughty and leads to abuse like in your words ’ simple clicking the flag for moderation’. It could get even worse like you say or more demand ’ I expect @maki.mukai and @tom.kelly to act accordingly’.

[rickymac]

You have some good points knysna, thank you for the feedback.

[maki.mukai]

Hi all!

In response to this thread, we reviewed all the points raised and have revised the community rules of the Forum. We hope these amendments will help steer healthy discussion and conversation that benefit the community.

Please have a read of the amended Forum rules here.

In an effort for all of us to move forward we want to start fresh with these new rules and so will close this thread and all flags associated with it. Conversation from now on will be more closely moderated against the new rules to ensure the Forum remains a happy and constructive place where the community can collaborate.

Many thanks