@bercinho Thanks for the original post - a fascinating thread and some excellent content.
You mentioned community development on one of your replies. This is very much a focus and we are committed to this with content, meetups and new initiatives coming very soon.
Thanks for your support! 
There is short sellingā¦and this is why you spend your time in forums instead of investing and providing liquidity to assets and companies. Nice chart btw, you forgot a few years on ETH which, investing will take into account all years and ada has underperformed ETH. Its drawdown is greater then eth. And what does your reference to a goat in a suit even mean? I feel like I am arguing with a 12 year old who knows it allā¦I am not going to explain market dynamics, valuations and āartificialā pricing to you, if you care to understand how valuation works on start ups as well as publicly traded companies, I will start anther chat to discuss why ADA must defend its price nowā¦not when the platform is 100%, or when a goat isnt in a suitā¦
Yeah robJF, no its not good enough for meā¦As being one of the investors who has provided liquidity to an asset that is under the leadership of Charles, there needs to be some action taken to protect the valuation, liquidity and the long term market for ADA. I am not simply a developer who can just throw hands in air and āget outā, nor am I someone who is going to short the market to make returns. We believe in the platform, Charles and his team and thus our sole independent investments were made. Now, as the market devalues ADA, and is being overpowered by other similar platforms in a form of protectionism, Charles and the team need to step up their defenses starting from the leadership. Supporting price is not āproppingā up price, it is defending what we believed to be a superior product and service.
āFroccoā, my initial involvement was in the form of dollars, which is a deep commitment to the community of ADA as a whole. My next involvement is exactly what you said, starting to discuss and contribute to the forums. My expertise is not marketing, nor is it in dev opsā¦my expertise is recognizing a superior product and/or service and backing that with liquidity. My initiative is to come here to discuss the leadership and how they are lacking in stepping up their protection of nefarious short selling of ada. The amount of defensiveness in this chat is ridiculous. I came here to make a comment on another post that got good feedback from you, and now that i state i am simply āan investorā with no forum time and that the exec team needs to step up, you can not provide a legitimate point to the contrary.
This is exactly why the voting system needs to be implemented. āOut off topic who remembers Nintendoās debut?ā
There is no short selling. If you think there is, you simply dont know anything.
Bitmex ADA contracts are futures which means each short has a long - in a isolated environment settling in BTC (open interest tiny amount of 75M, and this is probably the most popular contract)
Bitfinex, not sure, but that would the only place if any that would have short selling - and the amount is tiny tiny compared to the supply. I doubt you can even short ADA there, but havenāt looked it up. Correct me if I am wrong.
Short-selling does not lower the price of any asset in the long run - unless it deserves to. Short sellers are just future buyersā¦ and we dont even need to debate anything on ADA cause it aint being shorted so irrelevent.
No I did not forget a few years on ETH omgā¦ ADA wasnt on the market, so you cant compare on that time, then you need to make a chart from IPOā¦ its all time and market cap relatedā¦
ADA has over-performed ETH in all ways - you need to measure from time and market cap if you cant understand this, thats fine. ETH starting point is irrelevant, cause it started from a tiny tiny market cap.
All performance needs to be weighted - measuring from ATH you are only measuring one side of the story.
You do this in all markets, including stocks - you use beta and alpha which exactly takes this into account, measuring the volatility to the overall market will give you a indicative measurement of the performance in both directions or using a sharpe ratio. You cannot compare apples to oranges - you have to weight one way or another and get to some risk/reward metrics.
Something that goes up 2000% and falls 70% has performed better than something going up 1000% and falls 50% from whatever time period you are measuring. Even if you Measure ADA from February and ETH and ADA come out to exactly equal performance non-market cap weighted.
Now if you want to go one step further and weight for market cap and potential reward, ADA has significantly outperformed even in the same time period.
Dont worry about explaining market dynamics to me, because in order to explain something you have to understand it.
Supporting the price is exactly propping it up - if you have to support the price that means it aint worth that price, if it was there would be no need to support it. The market will step in by profit motive all by itself. Charles will not take initiatives to support the price, cause he aint a idiot. He knows this is a fools practice that cant be done - not only would this be a legal mess - the only thing that will bring real value to Cardano is getting the project up, and for natural demand (usage) to come in. That is the only thing that can bring a sustainable price to ADA. If we never reach that point, ADA will be 0, no pumping, no artificial supporting, no nothing can prevent this.
Until we reach that point, we will be in complete mercy of the speculative outfall - the lower we go, the easier it will be to maintain. The correction is necessary to open the way for any further up-move. Dont come and tell me that 10b valuation for a early stage venture project is not insane.
Any artificial pumping WILL be corrected over time. Always. That is what the market do, correct overvaluation and undervaluation.
Also since you refer yourself as liquidity provider. Assuming you are not a market maker, you are a second tier liqudity provider. which is basically a trader (investors are third tier), if you provided liquidity at the wrong prices (aka in this case overvaluation) you provided bad liquidity to the market, the market will punish you for that by taking away your capital and giving it to more efficient liquidity providers (Perhaps The people you bought from)
Buying high and selling low are bad liquidity providers, which is why they lose their money because they increase volatility rather than lower it - which is their job not to since you are making the market more inefficient - and this money finds its way to liquidity providers who lower it.
JB not disagreeing with you but your whole argument rests on mr.market being able to perfectly value a blockchain at any given moment. Having seen this before a few times in my life mr. market sure is not perfect in the short run but he is a wise old fellow if you give him some time. There are also many historical examples of illiquidity propping up prices. An example is when Porsche was shorted and a squeeze happened and nobody wanted to sell. So I think at times illiquidy CAN be an argument. But for Cardano at this point in time I agree totally with you - what Cardano needs is actual projects implemented and causing the fundamental value of the project to make mr.market react. And he always does, it is just that he takes time.
Please donāt mix the valuation of an early stage startup with its cryptocurrencies Marketcap.
These are totally different things.
Yup
Short term anything can go anywhere - but the market always comes back to where it belong. Thats why I am arguing there isnāt any point doing anything, cause this works both up and down. If we go too low, we will come back. Nobody needs to DO anythingā¦ It will all happen by itself.
The examples you have - all of these were eventually corrected - and thats the point you cant trick or manipulate anything over the long term. As a investor, long term is all that matters.
In some ways they are not, I have already addressed this to multiple people, so wont do it again. Will try find a link. Its not the same, but market cap is a very important mechanic - we can argue what stage Cardano is in, and what value it currently has, sure - but at the end of the day ADA must represent its market cap in equal value for it to maintain it. Thats a fact.
world trade center, just go to the pictures.
@ZCryt0Knight made a good response too, and I believe I did make follow up. Just not not on his third response.
I am āsimplyā a investor as well and have no reason to step on that group. I as well wish as all other investors a stabil encrease of my investment. But in my professional career I am allso a manager and have some basic demands. I welcome involvements and critisism from all sorts of experienced people from all sorts of entrepenurial backgrounds, yours as well. What I dislike and miss from statements of critisism in 95% of the time, is some kind of suggestion to a fix or stabilization of the stated flaw/error/problem. So in short terms: When stating critisism I have a demand of a solutionbased suggestion afterwards, if not a solution the willingness to step up and help if others have a solution. If not, the critisism has a hard time to be taken serious by me I am not in any way defending the managers but in lack of a solution I am carefull to critisize atleast to I have some sort of a solution i can present.
Please note that I am in the process of writing a whitepaper (which I will send to Emurgo and IOHK) for such a community.
This is set to be a function for an Online Makerspace solution, but in the backend we really make the next industrial revolution (Industry 5.0 based on the effort done (and still on-going) in Industry 4.0. where we go from a digital idea, back to a physical product)
Enabling Rapid Prototyping directly connected to ADA ecosystem.
We are currently looking for investors, hence my whitepaper to Emurgo 
Hi Roar,
This sound very interesting!
Do you mind sharing the whitepaper for review?
Thanks
Well said! 
Love this idea We would love to see if we can help too. Feel free to DM me @roarh
Nice to see that there are some other early supporters in Scandinavia as well. Best of luck!!
My fear is the tyranny of the majority. My fear is that whales, huge volume buyers, are amassing ada now for the sole purpose of having multiple stake pools. A single whale can evade the stake pool size limitation by possessing huge quantities of ada. At 7 cents, it should not be difficult for millionaires. At the moment, I see no prevention mechanism in place to prevent this danger. Letās assume a stake pool has a limit of 1 million ada. Can a whale with 25 million ada single handedly have 25 staking pools?
Looks like you are right jb,
at what price should fair value now for ada at this time?
Iām just an ordinary person who has been long enough watching traditional markets and their behavior, but I personally donāt think this downtrend is caused mainly by internal ābad actorā whales. Price and value are concepts that usually donāt correlate the way they should, since there are still no use cases to justify a valuation and the price is just a reflection of the overall sentiment of the market as a whole towards a specific project. The current state of Cardano presents several characteristics that could contribute to this current trend:
1: The initial investment round was concentrated mainly in Japan and Korea. This causes the current funds to be heavily concentrated in that region with still little penetration to the other markets.
2: There was almost no participation from western markets in the initial investment. This could have saved some legal hurdles for the future, but also left a reduced participation in some of the largest markets and therefore low incentives and interest to promote the project by western actors and crypto media.
3: The Cardano team has been careful not to over-hype the project and let it grow by real valuation. This is the right strategy in the long run, but leaves it behind more lobbied projects.
4: The project went public in the middle of an over-hyped bull run and therefore the vast majority of the newer investors (most of western investors) are heavily under water. This could contribute to a generalized negative sentiment. It took my attention that during this first year anniversary the twitter comments in English were a lot fewer than I expected.
But all this is mostly just a temporary state of the market and Iām not really concerned about it. Once the project becomes operative and demonstrates potential use cases, the price should better match the valuation.
What does make me serious concerns are all the new futures contracts (fake paper coins) and leveraged trading (aka BitMex). Those are exactly the tools the traditional financial actors use to manipulate markets and steer them in the direction they want. In the traditional stock market Iāve seen stocks trading an intraday volume of up to 30 times their whole outstanding shares to turn a good rally into a bloody selloff. Check the term āNaked Shortingā and āHigh frequency Tradingā. Manipulators donāt need to be whales to drop a market. Just enough capital and the right tools (leverage, short positions, and futures).