Frequent Delegation changes unbeneficial?

Hello fellow Carda-Nobles :wink:

Ive been managing 3 wallets on Daedalus now, for separation of stack-purposes not all in in one wallet. for now ths might be irrelevant though.

my question is: if i redelegate every epoch, will that mean that my rewards are delayed/staggered or even not yet taking any effect?

Ive staked for 3 consecutive epochs, though not in the same pool (due to reaching its saturationpoints) and ive not seen any listed under the rewards tabs. Apart form the obvious chance the pool you delegated to didnt mint a block in the time your stake was active there.

Ive read teh papaers on the snapshotting etc, but some other posts here have me confused about how it actually works.

Hope to learn more!

Bas

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Hi,

I like your question very much!

The idea is that you will receive rewards gap less. All you have to pay attention to, is that the snap shot happens.

delegation process:
For example you delegate to pool1 the snap shot takes place. The next epoch you redelegate to pool2 then you redelegate in epoch 3 to pool3.
rewards:
Delegating to a pool means you grand the pool the right to mine blocks 2 epochs later. Also this means you will receive rewards 2 epochs later.
If we follow our example in delegation process, you will receive rewards from pool1 when you delegate already to pool3.

I hope I could help :)! Please remember my pool for your future decisions :).

Best,
Johann

Hello,

It is s lottery, u can get you more rewards if that pool will have a luck over 150% (for example last epoch I had a 240% luck, but for sure not all epochs will be the same… also I had epochs with only 40% luck)…

My theory is this: if u stake with one single pool at the end of the year (long term) u will have arround 5-6% profit…(if u are searching on pooltool.io all top pools doesn’t provide a longterm ros greater than ~5,5%)
But if u are delegating each epoch to different pools and u are lucky and those pools will have +150% luck… then u should receive more rewards…

Cheers,

Hi,

I am sorry to disagree with you.
On one hand side you are right. It is a lottery. On the other hand you are wrong. Switching the pools does not modify your chances. Over the whole year it will average to 5/6%.

Take this as an example.
One whale with 1 million ADA would redelegate every epoch to a new pool. Their probability to earn rewards based on 1 million ADA will reamain the same it does not matter to which pool they delegate to.
What is important are the fees. Which for now are more or less “negligibale” compared to the rewards.

Best,
Johann

so, if you are moving your ada each epoch and let’s say you will be lucky and all those pools will have at least 150% luck you will not get more?
think a bit

@Alexd1985 this makes sense, but it might result in lower rewards as well, i.e. hopping into pools that were lucky, but are now less so. im assuming that that way the best longterm strat is to find a pool that is reasonably far from saturation. and stick to it for the longer run.

The research continues but thanks alot for these replies, they provide helpful.

Bas

of course… I told you … u should be very lucky each epoch :))

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Alex, this is not gambling take 100 people and let them do the same startegy.

All 100 will average 5-6% percent return. only few will get lucky.

Is it that what you are aming for? You cannot control luck.

Best,
Johann

What @Alexd1985 mean is that given the binomial distibution of these factors, a small percentage of people wil have a standard deviation more luck then others, but in swapping your delegation every pool, you get both the risk of more bad luck (swapping to pools that are unlucky) and the rewards of the opposite.

However, what @Johann_ADAholycs seems to point out is that after a certain level op pool quality/SPO involvement your unswapped, unsaturated pool return should average out across all pools.

Im in favor of actively monitoring your stake and delegation every now and then, but i think that stakepooloperators in the future may provide functionality on their websites to assist in making smart delegationchoices with regards to decentralization and overall pool health.

Bas

1 Like

Dear Bas,

this thread now gets more and more interesting!

I agree on the risk of bad luck, which is justified by including SPOs which do not guarantee a good supervised pool. Thus we are now talking about systematic errors. Few mentioned here:

  • SPO may decrease the pledge and take the ADA down 2 epochs to early. The pledge is not met and everyone looses rewards.
  • The SPO does not update the pool before the hard fork. Looses at least a day to clean up the mess.

If we learn how to avoid these systematic errors it should average out. Unfortunately I believe there are still many SPOs and delegates not educated enough. That shows how early we are still in the Cardano project. Thus pools where most ADA are delegated are the best picks for new delegates. More ADA delegated means more people vote for this pool. It is safer to trust this pool. If you redelegate to these pools you should be fine and earn your 5/6% return.

It is true that an SPO should provide functionality! I think this should be possible to monitor via adapools.org. For pools without a history of producing blocks this is difficult. Thus all mentioned systematic errors are not ruled out for small pools, yet. But also bigger pools may introduce systematic errors.
In that case I take my pool as an example. I test my mainnet setup on testnet, which does produce blocks. It is very healthy for Cardano to have the testnet.

Happy staking!

Best,
Johann

1 Like

You mean you have a colne running in both environments> that seems like a good way to test some functionality and pledge fiddling. ill get back to you on that as we get ours set up!

Bas

Exactly, we are here to help each other.

Best,
Johann