ITN Continuation, CIP's and Governance Today June 19 2020

English General Discussions
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Wow!
We have a very small amount of time to vote for the ITN continuation through July 29 2020 to continue issuing rewards.
This is crazy guy’s! We need more time to vote on issue’s and discuss and resolve little issue’s that might be found through discussion!
I am going to vote yes to continue the ITN and make it something that many people have idea’s for, reward the Pool ops that have hung in there through crazy times, and reward stakers that are all about supporting Cardano, yes take a new snapshot and allow more people to be involved and let the ITN protocol move forward.
But I only say yes cause I believe the Pool Ops and our community deserve it, I do not like that funds set aside for minting on mainnet are going to be used on a protocol that could go anywhere or controlled by a specific entity that developed it and this is unplanned! And even outside the idea of how to utilize governance through a formal method!
I am very unhappy that a proper CIP was not written to be voted on, kind of disgusted that the very roots of our voting process is going to be stained with an impromptu decision to keep this thing we all like around - the ITN, yes it is likely we are going to spend ada to prop up this decentralized chain (the ITN) that has no clear path forward on how it is going to benefit Cardano at all IT’S ALL JUST A GREAT IDEA!

How much ADA is going to be used to prop up this ITN? Do people even think about how minting is meant to work and the monetary process that is coming directly behind the closure of rewards on the ITN, is this how we are going to use the treasury?

We like this lets quickly vote on it and spend some funds!how often are we going to do this?

It is too bad that Cardano is going to get off on the wrong foot… whatever though right? The historical impact wont mean nothin to nobody, pretty easy to explain the community wanted it, I wanted it, some of you wanted it, where is this going?

I cant believe it is actually happening yet let me weigh in on why I vote yes a little more:

The CIP process could benefit from a sister chain to be sure the theory works that someone would like to see implemented on Cardano, this sister chain would make the barrier to developing on Cardano lower than if someone had to test elsewhere without a large community,there is much to be said about the ITN and the participation we have seen, most devs do not have such a community available to test a product on, good idea’s can be refined on the ITN before they are realized on Cardano.

Is our governance already hijacked? How did this happen? Rewards?

This tweet set me off, I like where they are coming from, I like they think critically, what are we doing? I know i am a part of the problem voting yes, but damn… what do you think the next vote will be about?

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I’m in favor of it. At this point from what I understand all that is happening is if 2/3rds of the pool operators continue to operate the testnet stays alive for another month or so until a plan can be put together for its continued operation. It is a resource and at this point we need to decide what to do with it. I don’t see this in any way detracting from Cardano. Quite the opposite. If the project is to continue to lead the field we will need as many ways as possible to innovate and experiment without risking the main chain. I also don’t see how this fragments the community. If someone can lay out specifically what they see as negatives though I’m all ears.

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While I am in favor I fully agree with the point bring made we need a more structured debate on these type of issues than last minute decicion making.

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Like I said, I am voting yes.
Yet it’s not exactly a resource we planned for and who is going to be in control of it?
I never said it would fragment the Community.
What I would like you to look at though is IOHK is going to propose a way forward with the ITN and use protocol funds (which they will earn some of through rewards) that was never planned for and is short notice and has no proof that it will benefit the Cardano protocol, we are talking about a contractor that absolutely should strive to be the most successful company they can be and they are going to submit a proposal that requires community funds to initiate and they don’t think they need to follow the rules of how to submit a change on Cardano?
Why the hell work on an idea and not follow the rules you planned for, this is stupid imo, they know how funds should be voted on, they know how voting is being implemented through CIP’s etc.
This is all just bad and is going to prove to be a huge mistake, if I can spin it as bad then any expert can.

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First off my apologies. My response wasn’t aimed at you directly I was just getting my thoughts out based on the framework you provided with your first post for which I am grateful. I see your points about the process being suboptimal but nothing has been decided yet. Also the fate of the testnet is solely in the hands of the pool operators. No one can shut it off but them at this point. Part of the blessing and curse of decentralization. Things are usually a bit chaotic in the beginning and intent is important to me and I think intentions are good. With that said if someone (anyone) can give me a reason this is a bad idea I am open to changing my mind. I also don’t think this process is precedent setting as Voltaire will ultimately give us the framework for decision making but we are not there yet.

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No apologies needed my friend.
Like yourself I am getting my thoughts out, and I am glad your willing to help me look at things differently :pray:
I look forward to Voltaire no matter what comes out of this, this beginning is surely a little chaotic.

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:point_up_2:t5:yes. this!

@Cardano

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iohk is above the community - preach water = “no cult of personality over here”, yet drinking wine = acting as above the community… @cardano won’t grow a pair and step up ¯_(ツ)_/¯

let’s also not forget this is a contractor who’s up for re-election, responsible for delivering the means to vote (voltaire), with the incentive to under deliver (current issue as great case in point) and deliver late, a move that will cement them another 5 (five) years.

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I have no propblem with the ITN chain, but I cant accept the ITN coin. It is not right to keep the ITN coin online. if we fork the chain with coin, it is a bad start and we will lose credibility. I believe there is another way to experiment new feature. If we keep the ITN and the ITN coin, there will no different beteween them , because ITN’s new feature will merge into ADA main chain finally， If the new feature is failed in ITN , maybe they will roll back or create a new ITN2…3…4…5 with fork coin. If we fork the coin, IOHK, CF and emurgo will get billions of new fork coins for doing nothing, that is not fair.

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Any experimentation on the ITN will inevitably benefit, and if successful, be applied to the Cardano mainchain.

But does the ITN specifically need to be giving rewards (and keep stakepools running) to be useful for the purpose of this experimentation?

If the answer is yes, then the questions are:

  • Is it worth the cost?
  • What is the cost? One+ month of rewards from future monetary pool.
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No its not worth the cost.
If ITN wants funds, it should get funds from somewhere else. Not take my mainnet rewards like a leech.
Why should mainnet holders be forced to sacrifice more Shelly funds to ITN, a different chain altogether?
Its not right. ITN testnet should not leech one ADA / anything from ADA mainnet.

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So the way i see it is simple,

  1. Every ADA holder should have a vote on to keep itn or not as it will effect them all.
  2. If it is to be kept we should have another snap shot let everyone know why and give everyone a chance to be part of it. Followed by an air drop and a 1 to 1 ratio air drop of ada to itn.
    This seems to be a fairest way if it is to move forward with the backing of the ADA and iohk teams. Other wise they should fund them self and Charles and IOHK should not give any support and let it die of grow by it self as a coin with nothing to do with ADA.

The fact that charles and IOHK have so much to gain from this it would be out of order if they never gave 1 to 1 airdrop for all ADA Holders and done another snapshot.

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This is not fair for normal ADA Holders, If it is to go ahead why should it be supported and paid for with ADA. This is not right if they get nothing from it. However if it does go forward it I think there should be a new snapshot and everyone should get a chance to be on board with an airdrop 1 to 1. This seems fair of course charles will want this to go forward as will the IOHK as they will be the ones who gain the most coins so it is only fair everyone holder gets coins too!!

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I think there should be a new snapshot as well if it does go forward.

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So now we are being told we can not make post or set up new post!! Things are not looking good anymore. I am getting very upset with the been hushed off so called ambassadors that don’t like anyone who does not agree with them!! Shocking!! ~Things now being delisted Wow no freedom of speech with them that is for sure!! Shocked!

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Hi everyone, where is the voting happening? Is there a link for this?