Staking Pools

Is there a way to require/periodically verify a minimum level of “network, hardware, the variety of operating systems, DDOS prevention and monitoring systems, …” so that we have a uniform field of stake pools? If we fix the minimal configuration somehow, the pools can go ahead and compete on revenue generation. But the community will know choosing the cheapest option doesn’t compromise security/quality.

This is why Cardano is a superior blockchain. They think about incentives hard and deep. Simply genius!

Probably a stupid question, but is there a way to provide docker services on a decentralized platform?

I bet those who would like to earn ADA staking individually wouldn’t mind keeping their PCs on 24x7, if it was easy to do so. At some level, I suspect running your node is more cost-effective than delegating to a pool. If the protocol could check/verify your bandwidth and other quality metrics periodically and approve your node for minting, you could be better off minting blocks on your own. Especially if your energy costs are subsidized/cheap.

Somebody worked it out, assuming typical costs and rumoured rewards, and you need A LOT of ADA to make it worthwhile. And I’m getting the impression actual rewards are likely to be lower than was being rumoured for quite a while. If you’re interested search the forum, this has been discussed several times.

1 Like

If you meant decentralized platform as “public blockchain” then at the moment, it’s impossible. Might be some decades later.
If you meant it as “cloud computing platform” (which is decentralized already in the service’s POV) then they offer it already.

In theory, it’s possible w/ the current version of Ouroboros, as the selected stakeholders are already known at the beginning of the epochs. So, no one can stop you to shut down your PC and just turn it on and do a full resync (validating and downloading the missing blocks) before your turn (slot) to generate the block. However, the newer protocols will prevent this by obfuscating the list of selected stakeholders, means you will only know whether it’s your turn or not after the last generated block.

It just applies when you have enough stake to mint. So, it can only be properly calculated when the monetary incentives are known. Rough calculation is. If you have 1.4m ADA for stake, then you will be selected once in an epoch (5 days), means if the rewards for a month is smaller than your bills/costs then it not worth staking but delegating to a pool.

UPDATE: Just seen @vantuz-subhuman’s post, so pls check it for detailed answer.

1 Like

Who owns the servers in this setup? Did you mean “distributed” rather than decentralized?

The reason I asked my earlier question is that people tend to be viewing AWS as a centralization risk for running stake pools. So the natural solution for that would have been decentralized cloud computing, somewhat akin to what filecoin is doing with storage.

I saw that earlier. Unbelievable that you have to have 1M to have a chance at minting, but that will probably improve network bandwidth as people will delegate to stake pools. If I remember correctly the majority of ADA HODLers have between 10-10K ADA.

Do not get confused,. Sometimes, the distribtuted and decentralised terms in CS can be used interchangeably. However, I referred it to the decentralized cloud compute components that are cluster based, which are decentralized (in non-governance context i.e. In computation components context). I hate typing on tablet.

I would say 1-2% of the rewards for delegating is much better choice if you are not a whale. It is kind of trade off of convenience versus earns. I am old enough to prefer convenience nowadays, but if you woukd ask me 10 yrs ago I would have had said the opposite and not because of the rewards, but the technological challenge by being a hardcore Linux geek in that time.

That would be two levels of decentralisation, an extremely complex structure with, I’d think, unpredictable communications issues.

It’s a minotaur.

I have Daedalus and a good quality fast network connection which I think never goes down - probably - but I wonder if I need a fixed IP address? And despite reading it twice, the answers don’t seem to say yes or no to the Daedalus question.

Are there any guide how to install this staking pools? Any Special Requirement to run a full nodes?

Running a full node is just installing Daedalus. If you haven’t done that yet - its a good start. After that, wait a while and it will become a feature of daedalus I think

No, Daedalus will never have the functionality to run a pool. It’s almost certainly not even going to support individual staking, though I don’t believe that’s been clearly stated yet.

But you may delegate stake from the wallet or did i misundetstood?

Once staking is live, you will be able to stake from the wallet (Daedalus and Yoroi). What @RobJF was saying is that Daedalus won’t support you setting up and running your own stake pool as far as we know anyway. :grin:

1 Like

Funny how far I’ve come since I started this topic a year ago hahah makes me cringe reading back my original statement knowing what I know today :rofl::rofl: I guess its all part of the learning process! Just goes to show how awesome this community is :muscle:

1 Like

Would it be interesting not only for n number of pools to affect reward rates to promote a set amout of pools but also for tracking geographical and operating (well atleast not VM) system rewards as well?

I think all of this ties well with the fact that Cardano needs to run contracts well. This is one of the reason it exitsts (raison d’etre) and the reason it is a better approach with pools than say random selected all people staking of say Algorand.

I would think efficiency and diversity should be rewarded somehow. We as the community can do that by selecting the right pools we delegate too but perhaps as game theory evolves we can not only encourage say 1000 pools but also that they are distributed based on the best practice knowledge we have on efficient global computations and networking and security for robustness and for this to be directly related to staking pool rewards. I think it would tie well into the research IOHK is doing into both network technology and also the expertise they are sitting on with game theory as well.

In any case just wanted to put that out there as the more I think on it while yes it will be nice to show rockpi and 5-35 watt systems (i do however love the fact this is possible) as a contrast to bitcoins energy of a country consumptions in the longer run it does not matter much if the small subset of pools run 30-1000 watt consumption or whatever as it really is small in the large scope of things, what will matter is stability, diversity and efficiency and perhaps in future with sharding locality with say a merchant network in Philippines having a local shard / network connecting to the global cardano network for a local merchant coin connected to Cardano giving best of both worlds with fast and local robustness (example if network run from mobiles that it ties in with all local phone company network systems so if one is down the local robustness is still high) but also the safety and protecting of a global verification network. But then again this has to be a very fine line to walk as for example do you reward latency and encourage only the best of the best to participate once more money is on the line (wall street computer trading is example of this where hundred of millions where spent to shave of ms performance) and so finaly I think freedom is also something the system should reward even if using game theory for the greater good of a better system. But this could be solved by making sure always a set of the reward is given not for any sort of metrics.

1 Like