UBI (Universal Basic Income) on Cardano

I know quite well the “Relative Theory of Money”.
Stéphane Laborde demonstrated how we can bring equality toward money generation.
A fair distribution of money during your all lifetime, and equal in time and space. Future Citizens will get the same amount than past and present ones and you get the same amount either you are in Tokyo, Kinshasa or Dallas.
It is very fair and smart and do not prevent to “work” or have free entrepreneurship if you want it.
But with a fair UBI distributed to all you eliminate povery immediately worldwide !
And no longer need FIAT :wink:

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The English translation of the “Théorie Relative de la Monnaie” has been shared in a previous post.
Here it is again : http://en.trm.creationmonetaire.info/

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Very interesting concept – stake or delegate the technology you already own to earn. I like it. It’s like mining pools but less competitive, it seems. It’s like, “Hey, we think we can use the power in the computer on your desk to earn you 5X the rate of the electricity we will consume. If you delegate that processing power to us, we’ll pay you out from our profits proportionally to the processing power you provide. And you, personally, don’t need to lift a finger.”

Now that’s an idea.

It reminds me of why I like decentralization so much lately. We all have so much untapped computing power laying around and internet bandwidth that we’re paying for. Can’t they work on something useful for us? Why should I pay a hosting provider to host my like 5KB blog, when a distributed, redundant hosting network can handle the job free of charge? I’ll exchange some of my TBs of disk space in exchange for a little space on your disk drive to ensure my blog stays online when my computer goes down.

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I guess Satoshi Nakamoto solved the problem of self funding with mining and POW (Proof of work) and now POS (Proof of Stake) with Cardano ADA.

For UBI I guess it has to be something similar instead of getting “charity” funds from “someone”.

Not everyone has a PC or tablet but a mobile phone could be an approach to “Proof of Something”.

Sorry I’m thinking out loud something …

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Just saying about networking, if we get something like that at any scale the current system will break, since it’s based on overbooking bandwidth by providers (you don’t really have all the bandwidth you think you do).
We’ll have to grow out of the current solutions in that scenario.


Other than that it all sounds brilliant. I like the HW examples.
What do you think about developers getting a commission whenever one of their SC apps is deployed on a new project? Tons of options here.

I think the providers are just gouging us. Comcast’s VP might agree…

Hmmm… Thinking… :brain:

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Still on topic but an example would be of our current systems in relation to starvation produced by current governance without block chain, currently there are 815 million people in the world are currently starving, under nourished, roughly over 10% of the global population, yet we manage to waste 66 tonnes per second were is the sense?

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Is education a form of elitism? Uneducated people get less job opportunities? People without technology knowledge get more excluded from the new form of wealth (crypto)?

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The whole system that we’ve inherited in the majority of parts are completely outdated although there were some parts that was inclusive of all in terms of education.

In the UK at least it is in this day and age but it wasn’t always like this, the abolishment of grammer schools, well at least for the most part, in the 1940s gave way to the birth of comprehensive schools, in my opinion the most inclusive and equality education system open to all, then these were fased out gradually from existence in the 60s and 70s and eventually became High Schools.

To give a greater comprehensive view you may want to read the following short article to give another perspective.

Technology knowledge, or a lack there of, with each generation becoming more tech savvy will soon become common knowledge, although crypto is technical like with anything more people will adopt in years to come however you don’t have to be a mechanic to drive a car.

Thx for reading :vulcan_salute:

Notes:

We have come full circle back to inequality and exclusion.

We teach to produce mind numbing non creative cogs in the machine

We need, as Robert Kiyosaki, says, and I’m paraphrasing, more financial education

And just for fun

https://youtu.be/YR5ApYxkU-U
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So at this point, I feel like we’re in agreement that inequality and poverty are problems, and that the current institutions are incapable of adequately addressing those problems, but how can Cardano/blockchain/distributed ledgers contribute to the solution? And is some form of UBI possible? I feel like there is more to be addressed there.

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Maybe crypto will render UBI obsolete , that is the more participation of people in the crypto sphere and more solutions are build on top of it (Giving real meaning to BE YOUR OWN BANK).

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I got so excited that I forgot to retort :dove: @x3haloed -

I believe value in this case will ultimately have to come from inside the communities themselves, large and small, local and global.
I can’t say much more about it because it is up to them, and how they perceive and measure value. Blissfully, the diversity is staggering. :revolving_hearts:

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We generate value everyday just by existing, that is data, and someone is willing to pay for that data to deliver us products and services. Guess who has already built that platform? Facebook. (You can add Google for that matter.)

We generate revenue to Facebook by publishing our life experiences on their platform, we feed their database thus their AI and they have the numbers for mass adoption worldwide.

Instead of giving our data (life) for free , Facebook should pay us. The more we give the more we get, just like YouTube when it started monetization.

Big entities like Facebook or Google could deliver some sort of UBI if they wanted to.

“PROOF OF EXISTENCE” could be a thing to deliver UBI on these platforms, they have strategies to counter attack and reduce fake “users”.

Facebook could deliver Libra, pay users that involve more of their life experiences and the use of more of the platform marketplace goods and services and don’t accept Crypto LOL.

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Yes! Very on point @Classborn, those names do owe a lot to the people imo.
And amusing indeed, but a bit dark for me.
I think if we walk down that specific path, maybe “Oops!” Data Slavery (we’re close enough as it is).

Those who choose to trade financial security for their “souls” would be stripped down to the bits.
I don’t think people will “jump” on something like that, heck, I don’t even want to think about it. I’m just reminded of Google toilette.

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Charles has said he

  1. Doesn’t like UBI
  2. Believes we should own our data

But what he’s failed to do, is connect the two.

Currently, governments decide when value is created by printing money. Therefore, they must also decide who to give it to. Under this system, UBI sounds a lot like “free money”.

However, if data ownership is a human right, value creation would shift to the individual. We make data every day simply by breathing. If we could then loan our data to trusted companies and institutions, we would get paid for simply being alive. This is the UBI that Cardano can support through by allowing for decentralized data storage, identity management platforms, and electronic health records.

The blockchain wouldn’t pay anyone. But we could decide which researchers and companies we want to invest our ada in, so they can then use those funds to pay for data access. Data ownership is the future of UBI. That’s the missing ingredient that will make it all work.

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Thanks for joining the conversation @Dingier!

I think I can get on board with something like this, indeedly only if we have trustless/trusted mediating systems in place to shield “Data Renters” privacy, and prevent other human rights’ violations.
It actually sounds quite feasible, but further “debugging” is probably needed.

I agree with this 100%. Google and Facebook already pay us by providing their services to us. I suppose some people would be willing to trade their data for payment. But I’m fearful of where that leads us, like @rin9s.

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I’ve actually given it some thought @x3haloed, and there might be a SC solution here -

An “Identity DApp” that will be solely focused on privacy and obfuscation, letting people record all their data on the chain, while individually controlling how their data is externalized.

Data hungry corporation could purchase said “de-personalized” data, and people could get paid, souls uncompromised (reminiscent of stake delegation in its compensation model).
I like this idea because it clearly shows a scenario where Smart Contracts are imperative.

However, I still don’t find it to be a substitution for UBI - which is something I feel needs to be grounded in a social philosophy of solidarity. UBI is not a technical solution, as much as it is a value in itself imho.

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Google and Facebook don’t pay us, they hold us hostage with their proprietary products, and proprietary product design pipelines, decades in the making, that decide how to monetize our data now and in the future. We get no say in what products are developed, and we do pay them, by paying their advertisers with our attention, and more often these days, through the direct purchase of their hardware solutions.

Ideally, we wouldn’t be “trading” our data. Loaning might be a better word, if still imperfect. It would be one way, it would be conditional meaning we could take it back if trust is broken, and we could have democratically chosen representatives to protect us, especially in areas like healthcare where the relevant research would be beyond most.

Things like zero knowledge proofs and homomorphic encryption will allow us to share the information in our data, without actually sharing our data, so there would be no risk of reidentificaiton. There are some very clever solutions that might seem magical right now, but I’m hopeful. Jaron Lanier, Eric Topol, and Dan Boneh all have good ideas about where this could go.

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Lots of great ideas in this thread. Exciting to see Universal Basic Income being debated on the Cardano Forum!

First, there have been many real-world implementations of UBI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_pilots

UBI is a more fair way to distribute resources vs welfare or social security. It avoids giving an organization the power to choose who gets distributions. Distribution organizations also cost money to run. With a decentralized UBI, no organization is needed and everyone receives their fair share.

Implementation has been something I’ve been racking my brain over the past several years, but I finally stumbled on something I think would work.

I’ve previously been under the assumption (probably like many of you) that inflation is bad. When the Fed prints money, all our buying power gets reduced - that sounds unfavorable. However, after watching some Paul Krugman Masterclass (I would not recommend it, but he has some interesting perspectives) I came upon the primary argument for why inflation might be good for the economy. It incentivizes investment and purchasing. When money is getting less valuable, you want to buy assets and invest in companies. It compels the movement of money, which drives the economic engine.

So how does this apply to UBI? Instead of giving the power to print our currency over to the Fed, why not give that power to the citizens? Every individual receives UBI payouts every month. The money given to each person gets created at the point of payout. Each person then has the incentive to spend their payouts and circulate money into the economy. Money in the system grows, but at a controlled rate that is directly affected by the number of participants in the system. As the system grows, the monetary base grows.

Would the payouts de-incentivize jobs? The amount each individual receives will have to be enough to provide a basic standard of living, but not enough to purchase luxuries. If individuals want the big house, new car, and exotic vacations they’ll have to work for it.

How will this payout amount be balanced? If you allow citizens to vote for their payout amounts, there will be two camps that will emerge:

  • Citizen A thinks payouts should be raised because they would like the basic standard of living to rise. Votes yes to raise.
  • Citizen B prioritizes his savings and business interests over the basic standard of living and larger payouts will increase inflation. Votes no to raise.

The balance between these two parties should provide a democratic setting of a reasonable UBI payout amount.

The counter to inflation would be the productive capacity of the economy. Increasing production would strengthen the currency.

In times of crisis, instead of the Fed printing cash and giving it to corporations and the government; the decentralized UBI system would simply increase payouts to individuals. Corporations would receive their share if they provide enough value to citizens.

This implementation would flip the whole power structure of money on its head while providing a stable source of income for every citizen.

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