Will Ada whales ever give up their power? Hell no!
If I was an Ada whale I would be driving me a Porsche 918 and still be a whale. Don’t hurt your brain thinking too hard, just look at this beautiful car… https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/918
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After observing all the ideological mudslinging over the past couple days, I thought it would be fun to explore the root cause of these debates in this thread: We Are Trapped in a Bubble.
Maybe we can create a bit more mutual understanding and harmony between the commies and fascists.
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Just an idea…
What if the voting system had 2 (maybe more) layers similar to the senate and the house in US. One based off total amount of Ada and a second per wallet/account, regardless of the amount of Ada held…
Again, just an idea, I’m not necessarily married to it, just throwing it out there to perhaps further the conversation…
I’m a logical person. Odds are that these whlaes are here to help keep Cardano safe during its early adoption, so that a hostile take over cannot occur. Charles run this whole project like an experiment. Solid experimenta requires certain variables to be held constant for accurate measurement
The problem is you are confusing and comparing and old, custodial, centralized system to a descentralized, trustless one. It’s hard, but people really need to get rid of the old mentality - and BE independent. This is the real goal of crypto - financial independence (debt free) - this can be achieved ONLY if the network is truly descentralized! The whales by themself dont make it centralized! One point of control - like an dictatorship of small holders could also make it centralized!
Again, ppl confuse voting in Parlament with voting as stakeholders. No one is forcing you to obey they rules! You can opt-out anytime! Can you “opt-out” out of US laws? 
Regardless of libertarian philosophy, this factor on the whole is still a legitimate concern. It is somewhat reassuring that you hopefully have a group of investors that by virtue of both tax laws and culture are essentially locked in for 5 years. That being said I don’t think that most people who are buying ADA realize just how high this concentration appears to be. As in all crypto we are participating in an experiment. It is also not true that all crypto’s have such a significant concentration. It is also not true that this need be the case for currencies in the future. This leads to further questions? For instance do initial investors know each other and thus have the capacity to colude further? Are these investors individuals or do they represent larger groups of corporations? While this overall investors landscape may ensure the experiment can be maintained It is still a big factor to be considered for the long term future and should not be simply dismissed because it is uncomfortable.
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In Switzerland, one of the most (if not the most) decentralized country on the planet both economically and politically, citizens vote on every important aspect of life as many times as a minimum of 100K signatures sought by political movements, is reached. When that threshold is reached, it automatically triggers a national vote (or votation/ initiative as they call it ) at an ulterior date on which every swiss citizen must take part in, and as you’ve guessed, the majority wins and the government in place must legislate by following the people’s wish.
One other interesting thing is that Swiss Presidents stay a maximum of one year in office, and that they can’t run for office 2 consecutive years. This prevents hidden individual agendas and purely political motives to win to the detriment of the general interest.
Due to the decentralised similarities, I figured the above could be one of the interesting real-world inspiration to take into account when the time will come to think about future voting systems and governance.
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What you just said is the complete opposite of decentralization lol. If what you said is true. This is called mobocracy, full fletched democracy. This is a bad system since allows for wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor, which is organized theft as it is done by force, this is just one of many things of the toxicity of such a system. Not only is it economically bad, but it is morally wrong. That is why immutable constitutions should be in place, protecting the rights of everyone, instead of relying on people having principles, morals, intelligence and knowledge to vote on important matters. In such a system you have no inherent god given rights. Any rights you have are given to you by the government.
A idea of a decentralized government could be a government bound upheld a constitution of rights for each citizen. The government has no power to change these rights, since the rights were there to begin with, they were not given by the government. The government was instituted to protect these rights - within that constitution was a set, locked and allocated amount of resources that could be used for public purposes (this could be voted on, what was done with these resources)
Hence in this way, the government is decentralized from the population in that they are bound to a constitution rather the public opinion or votes. The constitution is above any individual or group, and is the above government itself.
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@CosmosX I cant write new replies, so I have to do it here to the post below. I know Switzerland - it is NOT the point if it is happening or not. Any system that ALLOWS such a thing to take place in the first place is a inherently faulty system. If the WILL of the PEOPLE (majority vote) can add ANY law to be legislated. That is mobocracy plain and simple. That is the exact definition of mobocracy. You SAID this, I didnt. I dont know what the actual laws are in Switzerland, this would be very unusual, YOU SAID THIS. I didn’t. You have to understand that this extends to many other areas. What if 90% of the people wanted to enslave the remaining 10%? If what you say is true, that could be done and would be legal under such system. It doesn’t matter if the idea is absurd, you have to be take things to an extreme to show the flaw. Just look at what happened in Germany
What you are talking about is less regulations and government interference, it has nothing to do with decentralization of anything.
On a last note. There is nothing to laugh about, the only thing you should laugh about is your inability to read what I wrote or what you wrote yourself.
Wait, what? With respect, that is the most laughable statement I have read on this forum. Either you don’t know Switzerland, or you’re trolling.
Do you know what the definition of mobocracy, or more specifically ochlocracy is ? Do you actually think that there is an organized theft and wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor in Switzerland? Seriously? I am a liberal, and in all honesty, I am one of the most anti-socialist individual you can possibly speak with, and I would tell you if this was the case in Switzerland. Quite the contrary my friend. I have been living there for several years, and it’s the opposite. Almost too decentralized and I come from one of the most centralized country (France) so I can see the huge difference. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
However, and that’s what it makes ironic, my home country HAS a redistribution system in place from the rich to the poor, to a ridiculous point. It’s the contrary in Switzerland. Just a question: Are you american?
Ochlocracy (Greek: ὀχλοκρατία, okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) or mob rule is the rule of government by mob or a mass of people, or, the intimidation of legitimate authorities. As a pejorative for majoritarianism, it is akin to the Latin phrase mobile vulgus meaning “the fickle crowd”, from which the English term “mob” originally was derived in the 1680s.
Ochlocracy is synonymous in meaning and usage to the modern, informal term “mobocracy”, which arose in the 18th century as a colloquial neologism.
Ochlocracy, or mob rule, is often incorrectly equated with tyranny of the majority; however, ochlocracy involves illegal action and does not necessitate a majority and is usually consisted of a minority.
I didn’t explain it in detail because I don’t think it has a place here. Anyway we are getting off-topic, and for what it’s worth I enjoyed some of your comments in another thread, but I have to say I am disappointed in what you just stated.
Less regulations and government interference? That is absolutely not my point nor what I meant, because the country I am referencing, Switzerland, also has decent government power that can legislate on his own initiative, and also an immutable constitution. It’s kind of hybrid, everyone has a say, and there are limitations in place precisely to avoid what you just described ( enslavement lol, seriously)
I honestly don’t know what led you to believe there was none of that, then accuse me of being unable to read?
Of course it could fit the aspects of a mobocracy if there was no constitution nor government power. But again, that is NOT the case.
Maybe I wasn’t clear and my thoughts were probably badly formulated, you can blame it on english not being my first language.
My point was to give a real-life example that could possibly help a future Cardano governance or votation system, of how a decentralised political AND economical system work in real life, even though I didn’t even get to the economical point yet. Anyway, you are misinterpreting and distorting everything I say and jumping to quick conclusions that are plainly wrong.
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You keep over-simplifying, creating false choices, distorting, and trivializing people’s concerns. This is not just about you day-trading ADA in your bedroom. This is about an entire planetary ecosystem with potentially USD trillions flowing through it AND a potential platform for geopolitical governance in several countries within the next decade or so. That means real global geopolitical and economic risks and opportunities are associated with Cardano’s technical architecture choices and ADA concentration far beyond your crypto day-trading. We have every right to explore all these complex systemic and geopolitical dynamics without your constant personal attacks and false accusations polluting our good-faith discussions.
Additionally, I have two companies that have already allocated USD six figures into (just the first phase) of a Cardano-based project, IN ADDITION to my substantial personal ADA holdings, IN ADDITION to bringing very valuable professional relationships and resources into multiple Cardano-based projects, IN ADDITION to 100s of hours of my time already invested in all these activities. These commitments to Cardano already collectively represent USD millions over the next 3 years, which means I HAVE A LOT AT STAKE and any other professional group that is investing in the Cardano platform HAS A LOT AT STAKE. Can you understand that?
Despite my concerns about the ADA concentration, I STILL believe Cardano is the best blockchain to bet on for many reasons that I’ve written about many times in the past. But that doesn’t mean it is perfect or that it cannot be improved. If we as a community can make it MORE PERFECT, then we have every right to do that without you hurling personal attacks, communism epithets, and false accusations whenever you don’t understand the intentions and technical/geopolitical nuances of our conversations.
Professional companies and investors can’t just “opt-out” after they have committed significant resources to something; all they can do is try to make the system better based on what they believe is better for the ecosystem, which is what I have been respectfully doing for the past several days. (You’ve made it clear that you think this is communism several times. No need to do it again.)
Until you start recognizing that Cardano is about much more than day-trading crypto, you will keep over-simplifying and trivializing all these issues. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that the ADA distribution IS extremely concentrated right now and there are other potential ways to do it (among other ideas), which the team can consider integrating into future updates? Why can’t you acknowledge the team has not presented a clear path to meaningful decentralization YET and that’s a big and legitimate concern for millions of people worldwide and at least hundreds of people SO FAR in these forums? Why can’t you acknowledge that everybody who cares about these issues has EVERY RIGHT to be concerned and EVERY RIGHT to respectfully discuss these issues until we have clear answers from the team?
Nothing is as simple as you seem to think. Trivializing all these issues reveals more about your understanding of the issues than the nature of the issues. Let people engage the community however they wish without distorting people’s words and intentions. If you have something substantive to say, then say it without wrapping it inside of a false accusation, ad-hominem attack, or veiled insult. This is not about me being “sensitive”; it’s about you damaging the entire flow and mood of our conversations. The ADA concentration issue is real (not FUD), but you’ve amplified the issue into an ideological struggle against communism (major FUD), while falsely accusing people of BS that has nothing to do with the substance of our concerns.
Be a thoughtful human, not a nasty troll, if you want anybody to take you seriously.
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Could you talk about your Cardano projects in another thread or is it too early for that? I would be interested to hear about them. Hopefully this will be the kind of projects that can be funded by the future treasury system that everyone talk about.
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Personally I feel the concern of whales is something to watch but premature at this point since we haven’t really seen it in action and don’t really know what we’ll be voting on. The voting system is geared toward directing treasury funds to projects that better the system. I highly doubt the dev’s will allow the ideas being voted on to be things that would hurt the system. From my limited understand the voting platform will essentially be dictating the priority of projects and won’t have the ability to “crash” the system as a whole. It creates a sense of involvement and ownership to the stake holders while not really handing the keys of the kingdom over to them…
@Adafans_io Your criticism is confusing to me… Could you please clarify?
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How can we keep the quality of not identifying ADA holders and still differentiate between one whale using many small accounts and many ordinary folks each with a small account? Technically I don’t think it is possible, especially if the wealth is accumulated over time and in many accounts. Even if we (community, devs, voters, ,team, etc) take measures to identify the whales, more sophisticated methods gain ADA wealth will arise.
Don’t get me wrong, I think your post is important and well written! I just don’t see a solution, and if there is one I’d love to know it.
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So from what I gathered from previous posts is we don’t really know what the contract that the whales originally signed said pertaining to length of time to hold or preset prices for them to sell at.
But I did hear Charles say that a hard fork could get the non-whales to a more harmonious situation, if needed. Separating the BIG FISH from the little ones…Does that sound right to you, smart people?
Where did he ever say anything like this? WTF?
so you bought at ath and are now trying to find reasons for the dump? and only shitstory you could come up is this “whales” ? I told you once - they love ada more then you, invested in it more then you, and back up the project for a longer time then you - i’ve seen lot’s of cardano haters - but you are the first one that tries to look like he is an “insider” - i think you own 0 ada and are just a troll
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Spreading fake information and FUD, posing as “adalove” 
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Until you publish your ada address, so we can se you are really a holder - imho @ADALove should be treated as an enemy troll trying to FUD and lie to cardano community
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First if all I’ll be what I want to be. And second, why a commie? I was pointing out a theoretical difficulty.