I just need to know, I’m currently staking in a pool and I want to know when would be the best time to take my ADA out of the pool to get the most rewards. Basically, at what stage would be best to remove my ADA, at the end of the epoch after 5 days or after 6 days? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
For delegation/staking/rewards only the balance at snapshot time, at epoch boundaries matters. So, if you need the ADA elsewhere, but you can wait until the next snapshot, do it.
But other than that, there is no need to do anything. Rewards automatically increase your stake without doing anything. You can put something in your wallet or take something out of it at any time. There really is no special strategy.
Thank you for the response but I’m just trying to find out when is the actual end of the epoch, is it the end of the 5th day or is it the end of the 6th day? Thanks again
It is every five days.
Next ones will be:
2022-02-24 21:45 UTC
2022-03-01 21:45 UTC
2022-03-06 21:45 UTC
…
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Ok so if I take my money out on the 5th day, will I still get the maximum amount of rewards or should I wait for the 6th day, at the beginning of a new epoch, I’m just trying to find out at what point I can I take my money out without affecting the maximum amount of rewards that I’d receive from the stake pool.
I don’t understand the question. Really.
If you take the money out shortly before an epoch boundary, you will not get rewards for that epoch (15 days later).
If you take it out after the epoch boundary, it will get you rewards one epoch longer.
you can remove the funds from the pool right after the snapshot which is happening during the epoch transition and you should add back right before the next snapshot
the snapshot occur at 21:45 UTC time each 5 days… next snapshot on 24 Feb 21:45 UTC time
I don’t properly understand something about the timing of the rewards calculation:
In this thread, everyone is saying that rewards are calculated based on your staked wallet balance at the beginning and end of the epoch. This was my understanding too.
However, slot leader logs are dependent on the nonce value and pool stake, which is fixed 1.5 days before the end of the previous epoch. (This 1.5 day period is the stability window.) So pool operators can know how many blocks they get to make 1.5 days before the next epoch starts. This leader log will determine the total rewards for that pool, for the next epoch.
Say someone moves their stake after this 1.5 day cut-off but before the next epoch starts and then stays staked with the pool. That person will receive staking rewards for the next epoch (paid later). However, the pool operator does not get the benefit of their stake for that first epoch in determining how many blocks they produce, which ultimately determines the total pool rewards for that first epoch.
Have I got that right?
Hi,
If for example u will move ur funds from the pool… it will be reflected on pool stake after 2 epochs
for example u delegated 100k to a pool with 1M ADA
and u will move the delegation…
Next epoch the total stake will be 1M
Next after the next epoch the total stake will be 1M -100k
Cheers,
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My understanding is that your rewards for an epoch and also the slot leader elections are based on the snapshot 5 days before the start of the epoch.
(And then the rewards are distributed 5 days after the end of the epoch, which altogether give the 15 day/3 epoch delay of rewards.)
So, the 1.5 days are well within the 5 days between the snapshot and the start of the epoch, where delegators cannot switch anymore, anyway.
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@Alexd1985 @HeptaSean Thanks for your great community support. We can always rely on you two to reply.
That makes sense. The total stake value is based on chain data from the epoch before. The nonce value, which encompasses random chain data, is fixed 1.5 days before the next epoch start.
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By the way, I like the presentation of ccvault to understand the timeline of delegations and rewards:
The dates on the right are the dates the rewards are received. The first line is the next epoch for which the delegation can still be changed. The second line is the delegation that is already snapshotted and will be producing next epoch. Third line is the currently active epoch. And the fourth line is the epoch that is already finished, but the rewards are still pending.
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This does get confusing. This is now how I understand it from a stake pool operator perspective:
Right now we are 1 day before the end of epoch 322. Stake pool operators can run their leader logs now for the next epoch (323) and determine how many blocks they get a chance to make. These leader log calculations depend on the nonce value and the total stake in the pool (amongst other technicalities). The nonce value got fixed half a day ago (1.5 days before the end of epoch 322). But, the pool’s total stake is the amount staked to the pool at the end of the previous epoch (321).
So this explains the logic behind the 2+ epoch lag from when you stake to when you receive rewards:
- You needed to be staked just before the end of epoch 321 in order to receive rewards calculated for epoch 323
- The pool can predict its rewards for epoch 323 at the end of epoch 322
- The rewards are fixed in epoch 323 when the pool performs its allocated blocks
- The rewards are then payed out in epoch 324
Please tell me if I still haven’t got the logic right.
Yes. That’s also why 322 is green and “producing” in ccvault’s depiction.
Yes, the stake relevant for production (and for rewards to the delegators) in 323 is the one in the snapshot at the epoch boundary between 321 and 322 (5 days before the start of the epoch).
As far as I understood it: The rewards are calculated after the epoch, from which they result, has ended. I read somewhere that this calculation is spread out across the whole epoch to keep the load even lower.
They cannot be calculated in parallel to the production, because the fees, the missed blocks, the outcomes of fights for blocks, and other details are not known exactly, before the epoch has ended.
So, the rewards are not paid in epoch 324, but at the end of epoch 324 at the boundary to 325 (5 days after the end of the epoch, from which the rewards result, which makes a nice symmetry to the snapshot 5 days before the start).
So, it’s really a 3+ epoch lag. Exactly 3 epochs from the snapshot to the rewards, but the delegation could have been up to almost an epoch before the snapshot.
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That makes total sense now.