How Many Stake Pools?

[ishleh]

@_ilap

Afaik, if nothing has changed since I last checked the code, Daedalus is an Edge node and you won’t be able to solo stake by using it.

It’s not for that ( Daedalus 1.4 ) ? , maybe i get it wrong but staking with Daedalus and other features would be available from Daedalus after 1.4 release

[_ilap]

You probably meant delegating using Daedalus, that’s ok, cos it’s just signing a cert for a pool.
I am explaining it: To secure the network the majority of slotleaders must be online 24/7, what you cannot guarnatee with the Deadalus’ wallet. As the wallet users, in general, are normal users, means just occasionally cheking their wallet and not running Daedalus 24/7, but some or a few hours/mins in a day.

[ishleh]

Thank you very much!
Yeah I know that you can delegate and the purpose of it, yet I was wrong assuming that once we have delegation, Daedalus would allow staking too!
Yes I know the difference between the two, I was wrong
Thanks @_ilap

[Jotunn]

@canopus

Does your cost also include relay nodes that may be required as accompanying service to stake pools? I know there’s nothing specifically in writing about that - but I am sure I have heard Charles mention that in a couple AMAs / updates.

Yes, relay nodes are factored in, deploying in three geographically separate locations.

Also, SL may not be the only chain to store data for. From the side-chain presentation it looks like there will be 4 side-chains. Additionally, there may be an Oracle service node as well. So the storage requirement may not be trivial.

ZFS was chosen to cover this very thing.
I’m glad you are bringing this to everyone’s attention, for if this is Cardano’s future then serving up this stack will require educating pool operators.

See this post:

A proposal, community spearheading Cardano staking pools

I’m putting forth this proposal, for everyone who wants to run a staking pool, public or private, we should join forces right now so when Cardano’s test-net launches we all have a place to gather and share best practices with each other. Cardano will decide the optimal number of pools so no pool operator should see any other pool as competition. I know Cardano has other public channels, and will probably be running another one for pool operators, Telegram or some such, I’m proposing a meeting …

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Correction, Daedalus is a full node as @_ilap points out, targeted application fulfilling its purpose as a wallet.

@_ilap

E.g. Big stakeholders can decide to have their own infrastructure for staking, meaning by that that the operation costs are smaller than the rewards.

This is one of the things Cardano is trying to steer away from, isn’t it? The cost of running a pool is an input within the Reward Sharing Schemes for Stake Pools, negating operating in a private world in opposition with Cardano PoS goals.

[Clio.1]

@yanik

It would be hard to find 1000 reliable persons willing to run and support software. Not even speaking about teams …

But, @yanik, there seem to be around 13,5 thousand ethereum nodes out there (https://www.ethernodes.org) and around 10 thousand bitcoin nodes (https://bitnodes.earn.com) And I think a mining pool would be represented as a single node

[HisMajesty]

Believe anyone will be able to setup a pool, a private pool if you like. If you can fill a pool, you would be crazy not to run your own private pool.

@ZCryt0Knight

I hope they will put in place some minimum requirements (bandwidth, uptime, storage, etc) for solo staking to avoid slowing down the network.

Why would it slow down the network?

I’m going to assume you mean because of missed slots… well, then they lose their reward I guess, it’s a strong disincentive. If you had any amount worth talking about, you would make sure that did not happen to you.

[HisMajesty]

@Jotunn

I did some back of the napkin calculations on this:
1,000 pools running at 5% fee is around 27,500 ADA Yearly
100 pools running at 5% fee is around 278,000 ADA Yearly

I have no idea if that’s correct, but I’ll go with the 1000… You can run a decent server on AWS for a touch under 1K a year, or probably even less with someone like Digital Ocean… so that works, even at current prices but I’m pretty sure I remember a video where CH was talking about “extras” (they always want more don’t they), idk how many extras he wants, but that might end up pushing it.

@Jotunn

yanik:

It would be hard to find 1000 reliable persons willing to run and support software. Not even speaking about teams …

Does anyone else think this?

I guess Yanik isn’t American. If the incentives are right, even electrified barbed wire won’t keep the hordes away.

[Jotunn]

See above for Cardano Calculator