# How much ADA = major stake holder for PoS?

I want to be a major player when PoS starts. How much ADA will I need to be considered a major stake holder when PoS starts?

100,000?
500,000?
1,000,000?
10,000,0000?

Any ideas yet?

I think about it in terms of selection probability, how many times will you produce a new block over a given time period. The more you stake the greater your probability of being selected over time.

Probability is the likelihood of an event happening, measured by the ratio of favorable cases to the whole number of cases possible.

Anyone of those you cited would work as would 1,000 ADA, a lower probability for sure but if you stick around long enough you will be selected.

Cheers,
Jonathan

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Ok sure thatâ€™s what I was already thinking, but what I want to know is what do I need to be selected as slot leader the majority of the time. I want to maximize my returns.

I get what you are asking but your view is slightly off, by the majority of the time, you are saying you want to produce a new block more than 50% of the time?

Think of a roulette wheel that has 22,000,000,000 slots on it, probabilities whole number of cases possible.

Now we need to know how many favorable cases there are over time, become a slot leader, letâ€™s use 525,960 as an example.

(22,000,000,000) / (525,960) = 41,828

What is 41,828 telling us? We need to have a stake size of 41,828 to be selected once over those 525,960 random favorable cases, given 22,000,000,000 possible cases.

You are asking for â€śthe majority of the timeâ€ť so that would be greater than 262,980 times you are selected:

(262,981) x (41,828) = 10,999,969,268

This was just an example.
We do not know the number of cases possible or favorable cases yet.

Keep this in mind, Cardano allows anyone to maximize their relative value.

Work with what you have, itâ€™s enough.

I hope this helped.

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I want to be able to â€śliveâ€ť off the interest I make as a PoS holder without having to spend down my principle ADA supply. I need to know how much I need to spend now (while itâ€™s cheap) to get into a position where I can make enough from PoS returns.

I know itâ€™s not possible to win every block or even half, but Iâ€™d like to be in a place where the odds are in my favor to be selected.

Maybe a better question is, how much RoI can be expected from a given stake in a given period of time?

Hi @CoconutTruffles! Please watch the video on the Ouruboro POS system, it will fade away any concerns you have on the matter of reward system.

Happy Holidays!

Hi,

Is there any chance you can link the video? I am unable to pin down the exact one.

Thanks

Prabs

Yes!, sorry for not doing it in the first place.

Itâ€™s a lot of content, but it is worth if you are spending risky amount of money.

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Thanks, now to start watchingâ€¦

So Iâ€™ve watched that video and another version of the same video and thatâ€™s great and all but it doesnâ€™t answer the question of what percent the return on investment for being a slot leader is going to be. Why canâ€™t you just answer the question?

Iâ€™m not confident enough. @io_jeremy may be your guy here.

The number of Ada is limited to 45,000,000,000.
At launch, 31,112,484,646 Ada were distributed: 25,927,070,538 Ada to ICO investors and 5,185,414,108 Ada to IOHK, Emurgo and the Cardano Foundation.

This leaves 13,887,515,354 Ada to be distributed during the Reward Era.

The page says:

Fee calculations and incentives are still an area of research under progress.

So my guess is that slot leader rewards are still being decided.

Then you would need to break the system.

The fundamental problem of election process is its unbiasedness. We need some randomness as a base for election, in this case results of this election will be random and fair. So the question is where this randomness can be obtained from?

We are using multiparty computation (MPC) approach: each elector independently performs an action which can be called â€ścoin tossingâ€ť and after that shares result with other electors. The idea is that results are randomly generated by each elector, but eventually they agree on the same final value.

https://cardanodocs.com/cardano/proof-of-stake/

However, in the simple view of maximizing your return, just hold as much as you can I would think.

Thinking in terms of ROI you should check out: How Cardanoâ€™s transaction fees work, planing when all ADA are in circulation.

On my phoneâ€¦

Somewhere in the forum I posted instructions on how to copy the wallet and secrets 1.0 files in app data folder, which can be used to back up and save the wallet.

Then, you can do anything with complete confidence after that.

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