Let's create "First two lifetime block" community

Hi everybody,
I’m running a little pool (not as hardware) STPZ1 pool.
I was thinking that we could organize in a group of people/pool-owner/sponsor
for pools with zero minted block,
with the goal to concentrate-delegate our few ada to a single pool,
delegating them in turn using a defined ordered list of pool,
since the pool creates the first two lifetime block,
and then delegates to next pool on the list.

The list could be ordered based on:
pool pledge + the ada contained on the given wallet stakeKey address delegated to the pool that represents, so anyone can check on blockchain.

For example:
| LsOrderByTotAda | Ticker | -Pledge- |AdaToDelegate | WalletStakeKey
|_______0000286 | STPZ1 | 0000153 | _____0000135 | MyStakeKey On bockchain


Now my wallet is delegated to a bigger pool but I will change to STPZ1 and fill with some more coins before start, to show that the wallet is mine.

Once we reach 500K AdaToDelegate we could close the list and start, or maybe more if we are a lot, we could talk and decide.

Of course we talk to create a community so the base is honesty,
so the commitment is to delegate to the next pool until the end of the list.
If some pool does not respect the commitment we will write a lot on the forum to not use at all that pool.

The advantage are obvious for pool-owner,
but even for who would like to sponsor a pool,
because in a pool with few ada stacked the RoS could be higher.

The are no risk,
only very little costs that are:
the delegation fee 0,17ADA each delegation,
and the loss of little sure earnings to not delegate to a big pool.

That’s my thinking,
let me know yours,
suggest better rules,
and if you would like to participate on this community project.

Stefano.

5 Likes

Hello,

sounds good to me! If no one launched something similar yet lets try and discuss!

The problem is to understand what is small. Lets say everyone is committed to delegate 5k. We still need a group of 100 people.

The rich benefit comes if bigger pools or whales participate and support this project!
So it is still a question of marketing this “product”.

Hope someone else besides me (with bigger bags of ADA) catches fire for this project.

I see another difficulty which is greed. I helped at least three entities to set up a pool. No one of them delegated to my pool during the setup phase. I understand their argument. It is everyone’s freedom to give a vote to whoever they want! Cardano go!

So again it is all up to the marketing, because this product which we try to sell forces people to participate actively in this process!

Best,
Johann

I know it’s difficult, but there are a lots of pool with zero lifetime blocks that has some ADA,
it’s a way to start without marketing, aginst the big whales,
of course if you commit more ada you will be on first position on the list,
then with the first two block reward maybe pay some bills to keep going, maybe for the secon round.
But in anycase we are already two.

Stefano.

I am not saying that it is difficult. All we have to face is marketing.
In best case a few whales might be interested.
If every day the members double we have exponential growth!
We have to deliver education as well. I bet most delegates as well as SPOs do not understand how
the reward and active stake works.
For example if a supporter decides to change the pool. They will still earn rewards from the previous pool for another 2 epochs. While the new pool (if we forget about the probabilities) starts generating the rewards as soon as the second snapshot after change happens. So the transition in earning rewards is gap less.

Best,
Johann

Im in!

I dont have a lot of ADA (like a lots of SPO) and my first goal is to make a bloc…so lets try this!

Like Jogann said, marketing will be the biggest challenge.

IOHK is already suporting small pools…with a single 3.2M stake switching every 2 or 3 epoch…everyone with zero bloc could finaly make one.

Luc [LvLUp]

1 Like

This problem has been on my mind which prevents me from putting in a lot of investment in the hardware for a stake pool. I also don’t have a lot of ADA so I can potentially not have any blocks created for a while due to the staking rules prioritizing those with >100K ADA. My concern about the rule is I think the proposed rule is to bump up the priority of those who stake more. If this is the case, those with smaller number of ADA may never have a turn-- when in fact they are the ones who need this help the most.

I’d be very happy to support this initiative, but I suggest that we have a sort of queue to determine who we should delegate first. The queue should ideally be on a first come first served basis irregardless of the amount of ADA to be delegated. We then move our ADA onto the next one in the queue until everyone has a chance and we go back to the start of the queue if still needed.

While writing this, I thought of another rule… like we set a fixed amount of ADA to delegate so it is fair to everybody (no one gets lots of ADA tied for this project). For example, all participants should have 10K ADA for this delegation minimum. If they want to allocate more it is up to them. And they should commit to moving the ADA along to other candidates for at least 10 epochs. After that they are free to pull out their funds if they need to (but it would be nice if they keep going to help future new pool operators out).

What do you guys think?

Hi,
I think the queue it’s a good idea,
so anyone can keep joining the queue later.
I would like to give a chance to every pool to join the queue even the little one like mine with very few ADA,
in anycase who is in the queue is pushed to delegate more ada even if not declared in the queue,
in order to make rich the threshold to the first pool and kick it off the queue.

Thresholds:
gth or = 500 ADA delegated for: 25 epoch , get: min 1 block
gth or = 1000 ADA delegated for: 22 epoch , get: min 2 block
gth or = 2000 ADA delegated for: 20 epoch , get: min 2 block
gth or = 5000 ADA delegated for: 19 epoch , get: min 2 block and min 2 epoch
gth or = 10000 ADA delegated for: 19 epoch , get: min 3 block and min 2 epoch
gth or = 20000 ADA delegated for: 18 epoch , get: min 3 block and min 2 epoch
gth or = 30000 ADA delegated for: 17 epoch , get: min 4 block and min 3 epoch
gth or = 40000 ADA delegated for: 17 epoch , get: min 5 block and min 3 epoch
gth or = 50000 ADA delegated for: 16 epoch , get: min 6 block and min 3 epoch
gth or =100000 ADA delegated for: 15 epoch, get: min 7 block and min 3 epoch

To define let say, a time limit rule:
if after 6 epoch and >= 600K ADA delegated to the pool
and the pool got at list 1 block
then the queue will pass to the next pool even if the thresholds are not reached.

Do you think could be good as proposal?

Let’s try to define few rule but to cover all the situations so we can start to adv to all the pools with 0 block or less more, about the project.

We could try to ask IOHK to sponsor the project with 600K ADA to delegate to the queue to improve the cardano network.

Since now the queue is:

  1. STPZ1
  2. AHOLY
  3. LVLUP
  4. bclens (what is your pool ticker?)

Stefano.

Hello everyone,

Great idea, count me in for this too. Perhaps a telegram group could be started in order to organise the efforts?

My ticker is BBFSH by the way.

*Edit:
Perhaps a Google form such as this one (I just created a mockup) would be a good way to collect applicants.

Hi,

I do not understand the thresholds, yet.
what does gth stands for?

A telegram group is simple and a good idea.

I see an important problem here. Most SPOs have their ADA in their pledge. Reducing the pledge takes 2 snap shots and also does not look good to the outside.
So to participate more efficiently one should really have some ADA in addition to the pledge.

Best,
Johann

Hello Johann,

My guess is that “gth” stands for “greater than”?

Concerning the pledge, I suppose that you are right, but I don’t think that something can be done about that. SPOs can keep their pledge intact and try to get a block on their own, or join such an effort by reducing their pledge by say 50% and contributing. Their odds might be better if they decide to follow the 2nd approach.

By the way I created a Telegram channel, you can join here.
As soon as people have started joining, we can decide on who the admins will be and I’ll pass ownership over to them.

Thanks!

Yes gth it stands for “greater then”,
I’ve already joined the telegram group, that we can use for quick interaction,
but then the important stuff I think we have to write it here.

Since now the queue is:

  1. STPZ1
  2. AHOLY
  3. LVLUP
  4. bclens (what is your pool ticker?)
  5. BBFSH

Stefano.

I joined the group. But thats it I can not contribute, yet. Something is still off.

Sorry, fixed it :slight_smile:

Hey guys, great idea! I would like to join as well :slight_smile:
Came to the harsh realization, that starting a pool is actually hard :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

1 Like

Just to check how poor we are…let’s complete this sheet.

Great idea guys. I would like to join as well. Hosting a pool is great and all. But a block would be nice :wink:

I added my pool to the list :slightly_smiling_face: and filled out the googleDoc

  1. STPZ1
  2. AHOLY
  3. LVLUP
  4. bclens (what is your pool ticker?)
  5. BBFSH
  6. LUCY

I added my pool as well, and updated the Telegram group to a new link with Group butler as an admin.

After the contribution of all,
the rule to use in the F2LB group is to use a queue, first in first served,
you can sign on it here in the forum.

Then, based on ADA quantity → Q you delegate (minimum 500 ADA):
you have to keep delegating Q ADA to the first pool in the list for E epochs,
and redelegating to the next pool when the first pool reach the threshold and it is pushed out from the queue.
Based on Q you get higher threshold to remain first in the queue and get more chances to get blocks and less epochs E to keep delegating/redelegating your ada to the first pool.

The thresholds are:
Q >= 500 ADA keep delegated for E=30 epoch , get: minimun 1 block
Q >= 1000 ADA keep delegated for E=25 epoch , get: minimum 1 block
Q >= 2000 ADA keep delegated for E=24 epoch , get: minimum 1 block
Q >= 5000 ADA keep delegated for E=23 epoch , get: min 1 block and min 2 epoch as first
Q >= 10000 ADA keep delegated for E=22 epoch , get: min 2 block and min 2 epoch as first
Q >= 20000 ADA keep delegated for E=21 epoch , get: min 2 block and min 3 epoch as first
Q >= 30000 ADA keep delegated for E=20 epoch , get: min 2 block and min 4 epoch as first
Q >= 40000 ADA keep delegated for E=19 epoch , get: min 2 block and min 5 epoch as first
Q >= 50000 ADA keep delegated for E=18 epoch , get: min 3 block and min 5 epoch as first
Q >=100000 ADA keep delegated for E=17 epoch, get: min 3 block and min 6 epoch as first

so if a pool has granted 2 block and 2 epoch as first,
until both conditions are verified the pool stay first with all delegation on it.

To define let say, a time limit rule:
if after 7 epoch a pool is first with all delegation and the pool got at list 1 block
then the queue will pass to the next pool even if the thresholds are not reached.