Pledge of 25k ada too much? (as requirement for Cardano Foundation delegation)

I don’t think that 25k pledge is too much. I think it’s way too small. I would trust more a pool owner that is in Cardano for multiple years, that has accumulated its pledge over the years, that believed in Cardano when the whole market was bleeding and staying in uncertainty.

Newcomers that just found out about Cardano a couple of months ago and decided to make money as an SPO will not like what I say here. We have too many small pools created by complete newcomers complaining how hard it is to mint blocks. Since most of them cannot add anything valuable, they all write about the charity they would do with the money they don’t make yet. They are here “for the technology,” and they “support decentralization.” None of them even bothered to read official docs like engineering design specs. If they did, they would understand that k = 500 means the optimal number of pools should be 500. We have 2500 pools now! The reasonable number is somewhere up to a thousand. Those extra 1500 pools do not bring/support decentralization as they state. They decrease the network efficiency. Communication between 2500 nodes is less efficient than communication between 500 or 1000. RTFM, FGS!

I understand that having multi-pools like 1PCT is unfair. I see Binance pools as a problem. But I would not trust 15M stake to newcomers that have nothing to lose. CRO pool actions prove my concerns.

It is all my opinion. I understand that many will not like it. It will make me happy if some will spend a couple of evenings reading the official documents since they decided to become SPOs.

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it is too much, not for you but for majority people who work for a living it is. in the near future it will represent 50,000 dollars. makes no sense requiring people to sell their houses to start a pool.
you don’t have to “trust” in the pool, nobody will ever run with the delegation money its not like it works. pools can start small and earn more and more delegators with time. thats fine and this is how it works.
again 25,000 ADA its just too much money in several countries in the world now, thats true and verifiable with real data about income, not everybody lives in rich countries.
you saying we are making the network bad because we are too many its ridiculous.

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I currently run a pool with only 500 Pledge … not 500K, but 500. I started out by buying 1K ADA at about $1.20 USD. And 500 ADA was used to start the pool. I just found out about Cardano in March and promptly started a pool. Since then I traded some BTC to buy more ADA. My pledge hasn’t changed, but when I update my registration to use a dns instead of an IP address for my relays, I’ll also update the pledge, but it won’t be a huge sum as I started pretty late. I have 10K ADA now and will pledge that, but I don’t think there should be a minimum pledge to run a pool. I wasn’t aware of the Cardano Foundation delegating to stake pools, so that is cool. It would be a great bump to help a small stake pool like mine. I’ll be doing some marketing and other stuff to try and bring delegators in soon, but right now I just wanted to get a stake pool up and running since I’ve not done anything like that before.

Anyway, I don’t think it is great what CRO did here obviously, but if I understand correctly, changes like that don’t take effect for 2 epochs. So current delegators can move before the end of this epoch. If a block is minted this epoch then the original fees will be honored (340 + 1%). So it seems the only question is if the Cardano Foundation will remove their delegation this epoch or not. If they want to discourage the behavior it would make sense to do so.

With ADA currently hovering around $1.70 USD, we are saying that a “small” Stake Pool has to have a pledge of $ 42,500 USD (25,000 ADA) to be eligible for the Foundation to delegate. My 10K has already stretched the limits currently - as time goes on, ADA will increase in value and it will be more and more difficult for newcomers to start a pool. If there aren’t rewards, they will most likely leave and that will hurt the decentralization effort.

I do wish I knew about Cardano last year :slight_smile:

On the other hand there’s parameters that can mitigate the issue and help smaller pools. And IOHK, Emurgo and the other parties deciding on parameters are already working on a solution.

There are 2 parameters considered for change: k which is currently set to 500. A higher value would cause pools to saturate with lower delegation. That has already been tried, and caused big pools and exchange pools to multiply and did not help the cause as expected. The other parameter is a0. Rising a0 would generate higher probability of minting blocks with higher pledge. It does not require high pledges, but would increase the effect of pledged amount. This would help discouraging exchange pools from increasing their number of pools if k is increased because, it would block their ADA in the pledge. Currently exchange operated pools have pledges like 2 or even 0 ADA.

IMO a solution with increasing a0 and k at the same time would have the desired effect.
If the voting entities agree, the parameter changes can take place at a specific epoch change without a hard-fork (AFAIK).

Living in a rich country does not make you rich. GDP per person, HDI, and the average income in your country are much higher than mine. Why do you think that running a pool is for everyone? Pledge is there for a reason.

If you cannot afford enough pledge and you believe in Cardano so much that you want to help, there are many ways you can do that. You can learn Haskell and become a developer. There will be a high demand for your services, and it is an excellent time to start now. If you are not tech-savvy, then help the community translate articles and Cardano-related projects into your language. Spread the word! You can become a bridge for startup projects on Catalyst. You can help them bring Portuguese-speaking audience; you can help them communicate with your local businesses and bring utility.

Whining about the high price that does not allow you to make money from running a pool without investing is ludicrous. I don’t like when people start complaining about how life is hard because they do not live in the United States or Monaco.

You should never risk selling your house to get into crypto or run a pool. You clearly do not understand how risky it is. If you have invested money and bought 1000 ADA spending 800USD not long ago that cost 1600 USD right now, be prepared that they can cost 200 USD in a few months. If you sell your house, you risk losing it and then blaming it all on crypto, calling it a scam but not on your actions. You have not experienced how prices can go 30 times down yet. I did. I know what I am talking about.

If anyone with the small pledge/stake could run a profitable pool, we would have 50k+ pools. You call my words about network efficiency “ridiculous.” Please, read the official documents first. You obviously did not and probably never will. 50k pools will make the network communication inefficient. People, invest your time in understanding how it works!

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All your posts are blindly selfish. You’re only caring about yourself and don’t care or don’t understand what makes the network secure. Just delegate and stop complaining.

second, if what you are telling where any truth it should be impossible create more pools otherwise all the network would became completely inefficient and congestion like ether. your excuses are both ridiculous and based on lies. the more pools, the better not opposite.
Hydra will based on the number of pools in the future, the more pools more transactions per second will be supported.
You are selfish here, not me.

This document proves that the more pools the faster will be to transact!

For the network efficiency, please, read this:

I will save you some time, read at least page 4 and page 42.

Then why are you complaining so much about people that invested more getting more out of it?

2k ADA as a total stake? I don’t think they are doing well. They have a chance of minting a block ~ every 500 epochs. They will be better off delegating 2k than waiting 8+ years for a block.

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never said 2k stake but pledge… please ignore me I’m tired of arguing the basic concept that not everybody in the world shares the same reality. at this point it should be completely obvious that 1 dollar in US doesn’t allow the same in some other country but some entitled people can’t accept the fact.
please somebody close this topic, the situation is now cleared…

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