Yes you are right, thats why this is my last post about this.
I cannot understand your criticism here, but I am willing to address it as the person who carried out the “purge” you referred to. Just to clarify, the purge was not at the beginning of the year but two weeks ago, and I contacted you at that time to explain why it was necessary.
As you mentioned, Reddit is supposed to be in the hands of the Ambassadors, which it was before, to some extent. Since I conducted the cleanup myself, I know exactly who was removed, and the only people I removed were you and vantuz-subhuman, who was completely inactive.
Regarding the quality of moderation, I reviewed your moderator log before the cleanup and saw that in the past three months, you only made 13 moderations, all of which were related to your own Paima posts. Therefore, the quality of moderation could not have decreased significantly.
Regarding your question about why members of IOG and Emurgo are still on the moderator list, I already explained to you that they are there to manage the flair badges, which was already the case before the cleanup. None of them have been actively moderating. For keishadepaz, makimukai, benohanlon, and danny_cryptofay, absolutely nothing has changed.
I hope this clears up any confusion, and please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.
all of which were related to your own posts
This is presumably the case because all posts I make are auto-approved and not me doing anything manually. There was only one case of any disagreement on a Paima post, and I discussed it with another moderator at the time. None of the Paima posts break any rules anyway, so even if these were manual, none of them would be inherently wrong. Paima is not an NFT, it’s not a game, it’s engine to build onchains Web3 apps and games. It’s the same reason jpg.store posts stay up, but NFT mint posts get deleted. Same reason posts about Unity integration tooling stay, but posts about games that use the integration get removed. One is tool/platform, the other is an NFT
Also, this is empirically not true because I’ve probably approved hundreds of accidentally removed comments in the subreddit by the automoderator
I should also add that if you wanted to talk, you know how to reach me on any platform at any time. If your opinion is that it’s unclear whether or not a framework for creating games should be lumped in the same bucket as NFT announcement posts, you could have messaged me anytime on Reddit, Telegram, Slack or started a thread like this to discuss with the community
Instead, you blatantly lied to me in a DM to pretend this is some policy change whereas in reality literally the only person affected by this “policy change” is just me (with the addition of Ruslan after you saw my reply). If this “policy change” was not motivated by secret disagreement on the interpretation of the rules, you could also have simply asked if dcSpark wanted to become an ambassador to comply with this new policy.
My first observation about this rule is that “low value content” is not a helpful way to dismiss some of the posts from hard-working dev teams that have been moderated out of the forum. It carries a negative connotation that might make those developers feel unsupported.
Advertising is a quite vague term at the best of times, and by some interpretations, links to interviews with a single project team talking about their product could be seen as meeting this criterion.
In this context, you can hopefully appreciate why some projects whose posts are dismissed for the former are upset when a post containing only a single link to a youtube video with a long interview talking about one particular project is also not rejected.
Having worked in tool development for games for over twenty years, the rationale of ‘tooling for games’ vs ‘NFTs for games’ being the differentiating factor between ‘low value’ posts and posts that pass censorship is tenuous as devs use NFTs as tools to facilitate gameplay elements within games.
I am not suggesting that r/cardano becomes a free for all. Far from it, having attempted to onboard many IRL studios onto Cardano rather than Polygon in the last 12 months, I have found professional touchpoints for the game industry are non-existent in our ecosystem. So we do need a curated element for any outward-facing platform.
I am interested in listening to other perspectives before suggesting my own. This might be an excellent opportunity for the folks at CF to get some of the wider game dev community on board to have their say about this. It is a small part within a far larger picture that is starting to form, but I am sure that people would welcome the chance to have a say.
Although I’m not a Reddit mod, I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.
Given that about 40% of the ecosystem is comprised of NFT/NFT-related projects, if you open the door to allow them to promote their projects, there’s a high likelihood of flooding the platform with all sorts of NFT-related spam.
In my opinion, to safeguard the 690K Reddit Subs, it might be wise to limit advertising for NFT/NFT-related projects in the general subreddit.
What about creating a specific subreddit for the Cardano NFT Ecosystem?
A subreddit that each NFT / NFT related project can dedicate to help grow.
There is a subreddit for that called /r/CardanoNFTs
Notably, here is the list of alternative subreddits for other topics that are excluded from the main subreddit for reference
Of course the main problem with these subreddits is that many people don’t know they exist
I would argue that CardanoNFTs is not necessarily Game Dev specific.
CardanoDevelopers is also likely not appropriate - seems blockchain dev centric.
How well used are each of these channels? CardanoTrading seems to be hardly used at all other than the daily market update. 1-2 upvotes per post…
While they may currently be relatively unknown, I believe this is all the more reason for the Cardano NFT world to invest significant effort in building and promoting this ecosystem, and dedicating themselves to raising awareness. Doing so would undoubtedly benefit all Cardano NFT and NFT-related projects.
Given that Cardano is an ecosystem comprised of multiple smaller ecosystems, it’s wise to consider categorizing them as they continue to grow and evolve. I guess this is why we are seeing these dedicated subreddits for the different categories such as Stake Pools, Developers, Trading, NFTs, and hopefully more to follow.
(It’s also a way to allow the community to self-organize themselves - something we should continue to encourage - especially in a decentralised world.)
Appreciate everyone’s input here. I believe the current r/cardano rules are restrictive to the point of making the subreddit largely worthless and there is substantial room for improvement. I’ll outline a few points below as well as propose a few solutions:
r/Cardano is the largest Cardano community on reddit. It is in effect the “front face” of Cardano for the entire reddit community (Reddit has 430+ million monthly active users).
Inability to post about major network participants like Stakepools, NFTs, Games is severely limiting the utility of the subreddit. I understand the desire to keep spam/low qual content down, but we’re at a point of restriction that I liken to going to a restaurant without being able to discuss the food.
Current policies have also allowed and heavily promoted high profile public multi-million dollar rugs (see Ardana). This preference for Defi, Tooling, integrations etc. over games and NFTs doesn’t actually stop bad actors, it just shows preference for specific types of bad actors.
The mods are simply acting on CF policy guidance. There have likely been instances of abuse here, but the likelihood of abuse will go down if we simply change policies and open up a bit.
These conditions necessitate a policy change for CF. as the mods are simply enforcing current policy.
Proposed policy changes:
- Allow Stakepools, NFTs, Games, Defi, any Cardano projects to post.
- Restrict the amount of posts by projects to something reasonable - Maybe 1/day? This can be adjustable. For example, if 12 people are posting about the same project one day, pick the highest quality post and leave it, scrap the others.
- To cut down on “new” projects just scamming liquidity, maybe require 3 months + of activity or similar.
- Regularly hold policy reviews.
If nothing else I think that’s a good place to start. It’s important to remember that everyone wants to see Cardano succeed, and we all have different visions of what that looks like, but we are broadly aligned toward the same goals. Wishing everyone well, and looking forward to making r/cardano a more welcoming and useful place for newbies and builders alike.
We should just combind all the types of sub posts into one reddit. Label them as Stake pool post, NFT posts, Meme.
In my opinion it’s not relaistic to have a casual audence split between 4 subreddits.
Limit the posting ablity of new projects to 1 a week or something. When it comes to “Whats happening in Cardano” This 4 page set up isn’t it.
preventing spam is a balence and it seems to be set on strangle anything new or isn’t a “friend of someone I know”
I kinda like the idea Sebastian proposed to leverage the power of reddit in regards to upvotes to decide which posts to promote and demote. However, from experience I know people will also downvote things out of spite. If the votes matter for listing in the main reddit I am sure scam / spam projects will also give out bounties to upvote posts. Or how to we prevent bots from manipulating votes?
Does anyone know a good example reddit which found a good solution in managing this? I love the idea of giving more power to the people but worry the system is too prone to manipulation.
The cardano community has broken up into a dozen different silos.
People who wanted to see blockchain infrastructure are now in the WMT and EMP discord groups, People who want to trade NFTs presumably hang out somewhere else (i dont do NFTs). people who want to talk about markets are on the Trading telegram chanel.
People who want to talk about cardano development have been split in many different sections, from Catalyst to Plutus Devs, or the group who are writing the cardano constitution and so on.
This is fine but it is hard to actually find the ‘cardano community’ anywhere.
I like the idea of this forum being where ‘real’ cardano discussions are done, while the reddit sub can become more of a ‘News’ focused page, which includes things like NFTs, development, ISPOs etc…and if the tourists hang out there for a while and want to get more involved - then they can be directed here.
Whilever this bear market crabs along and the world still thinks crypto is for cocaine and guns. I am all for lowering the quality of the content on the sub - because at the moment there isnt really any content there at all. If there is another bull run and another generation of gamblers flood the sub, then it can get restricted again.
Just bumping this back up. Has any action been taken to change policies?
First off, I want to say a big thank you for all the awesome suggestions and insights you’ve shared with us in this forum thread and on Reddit. We really appreciate your input! To keep this important conversation going, if you have more ideas or recommendations but aren’t comfortable joining the public discussion, no worries at all - just send me a private message, and I’ll gladly share your thoughts here.
In the meantime, I’ll be gathering and summarizing all the great input from our community members. Keep the ideas coming!
We would like to extend our sincerest thanks to everyone who has actively participated in the ongoing discussion regarding the r/Cardano posting guidelines. Your contributions are invaluable, and we appreciate the time, effort, and thoughtfulness you’ve put into sharing your suggestions and insights. Our primary objective is to work together to create a solution that benefits the entire Cardano community and ensures r/Cardano remains a welcoming, useful, and engaging platform for both newcomers and experienced members alike.
To facilitate further conversation, collaboration, and a comprehensive understanding of the different perspectives, we’d like to provide an extended summary of the feedback we’ve received so far:
- Explore the possibility of creating specific subreddits for different types of content (e.g., Cardano NFT Ecosystem) or combining all subreddits into one, with clear labels for different post categories, to make it easier for users to navigate and find relevant information while avoiding content fragmentation.
- Leverage Reddit’s upvote system to decide which posts to promote and demote, while addressing potential manipulation issues, such as bot activity, malicious downvoting, or incentivized upvoting, and identifying best practices from other successful subreddits.
- Reevaluate the use of “low value content” as a criterion for post removal and provide clearer guidelines on what constitutes advertising. This would help prevent the unintended removal of valuable content from hard-working developers and creators, while ensuring a fair and transparent moderation process.
- Limit the posting frequency for new projects (e.g., 1 post/week) and require a minimum activity period (e.g., 3 months) to prevent scams and ensure that only genuine, active projects are promoted within the community, fostering a safer and more reliable information-sharing environment.
- Regularly hold policy reviews to ensure the subreddit remains relevant, useful, and adaptable to the ever-changing needs of the Cardano community, fostering a spirit of continuous improvement and responsiveness to community feedback.
- Maintain the current restrictions on stake pool and NFT promotion but consider allowing limited promotion for projects building on Cardano, such as monthly progress updates, to strike a balance between promotion and informative content.
- Consider assigning projects or their representative members on Reddit a flair that displays the project name. This way, it becomes readily apparent during discussions that the participant is a member of a specific project.
As we continue discussing these points and any additional suggestions or concerns you may have, we’d like to emphasize the importance of open, constructive, and respectful dialogue. Our ultimate goal is to work together as a community to make r/Cardano an even better place for meaningful discussions, valuable content, and positive engagement that fosters innovation and collaboration.
The above points should serve as a basis for further discussion.Please share your thoughts, ideas, and experiences, and let’s engage in a constructive conversation to help us refine our guidelines and create an inclusive, supportive, and informative space for everyone interested in Cardano. We look forward to hearing your insights, learning from one another, and working collaboratively towards a brighter, more connected future for our community.
Our overarching objective should be to provide deserving projects with a well-deserved spotlight, while simultaneously preventing spam, scams, and low-quality content from permeating our community. While we acknowledge the need for projects to have a platform for advertising and visibility, it is crucial to bear in mind the considerable moderation effort required by our team to maintain a high-quality and secure environment. As we strive to strike a balance between promotion and valuable content, we remain committed to fostering a community that is informative, engaging, and free from undesirable elements.
As already mentioned, suggestions can also be sent to me via private message if you do not want to participate in the public discussion, I will be happy to add them.
And now, let those keyboards blaze!
I do like the ideas mentioned above. I’d recommand to start a test phase and review the result after 2-3 months to look for improvements or stuff we have to change/adapt.
To ensure we consider the opposing perspective and address their concerns, here’s some information gathered from a Telegram discussion:
Currently, there are only a handful of individuals who want advertising to be allowed. These individuals are project owners with financial and commercial interests.
Drawing from past experiences, such as with stake pools, the situation quickly escalated. Users expressed their desire for content to be split across additional subreddits, as many felt overwhelmed by what they perceived as spam.
In other communities, such as the Ethereum community on Reddit, it’s also not allowed for NFT, gaming, and other projects to advertise. This restriction has not negatively impacted the NFT community there.
Nah, r/ethereum talks about NFTs all the time. Just do a quick search for bored ape, or BAYC you’ll see there’s loads of content. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/search/?q=Bored%20ape&restrict_sr=1&sr_nsfw=
Everyone interacting with the Cardano network has a financial stake in it. That’s somewhat the point of it. Right now the rules simply favor large entities and favor defi products (even if they are rugs). Please see my post above for more details in this regard.
Who is actually the final say on changing these rules? I feel like we can engage in all the “meaningful conversation” we want, but at the end of the day somebody with apparently ultimate authority is the one who changes the rules - so who is that person?
Bumping this up.