The Cardano Foundation is over, now let's make that a good thing

English General Discussions
21

You don’t have to be elected or empowered by a Community to fight for it, whichever way you do it.

How did you expect us to align our strategies how to approach the issue in a Community consensus? This Forum is not the Community, just a very small niece part of it.

We don’t represent ourselves as the Community, but as a group of Community members under a dedicated name who immediately looked for support and empowerment with the petition.

We would gladly see other groups being formed fighting with different methods for the same goals. You are really encouraged to do so, please do so.

The ultimate goal being reclaiming the resources of the Foundation.

If you think there are other ways doing this, please express your thoughts as we need all the good ideas we might execute and might adjust our tactics based on constructive feedback.

Note that there is another initiative under consideration having the Swiss residents who hold ADA to report to authorities. This is an option that should come into play once the investigation has exposed enough information we may hand over to the authorities.

Finally let’s try to have some mutual respect here. You don’t have to like what we do or how we do it, but you should indeed have some respect to a group with good intentions, massive effort and honest interest in your different opinion.

We have created a new Topic to collect other ideas, methods and strategies how to fight Parsons and reclaim the resources for the Foundation. Please go head with your comments there.

https://forum.cardano.org/t/other-methods-strategies-how-to-reclaim-the-foundation-resources/

Peace.

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22

Just did a funny comparison

@GuardiansOfCardano
A group of ~10 community members who signed a letter with their clear names, home country, their concerns and a lot of actually simply questions. Around 3800 signers (CN petition included) showed their wish to go with them regarding the requested answers and steps from chairman Parsons.

@Jotunn
well, who is he? He claims to

that’s fine.
He claims in the title of this thread “the CF is over”
that’s fine, a simple and easy claim. but also true?
He hasn’t shown any clear name, and we can only guess he knows about US-based SPCs because he lives there. Indeed tracing jotunn.com points to Kirkland - Seattle and all of this is fine. Very fine! But who will join him the anonymous guy to found a social purpose corporation? What kind of marketing and - well let’s call it “showmanship” - this SPC will do to find new members and may raise at least some little fundings? Or does the SPC and it’s members plan to achieve everything the CF had should do on a fully voluntary base?

Now after the comparison, I see that we have exactly the same goals with a very small difference: the original financing by the ADA ICO investors, the future owner of these ADA millions and the intended use.

That’s fine.
Peace, Lovelace and Rock’n roll!

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23

Exactly this is ONE of MANY examples that most of the Guardian-guys suffered for the whole 2018. Be sure - absolutely sure! - that this request as well as many others was presented to the CF many many times.

Instead of being considered, the new (but never publicly announced) CF-website removed the (few) blog posts and was English only. The old version (before September) appeared in 3 languages.

image
image1084×254 13.8 KB
see Cardano Foundation

And in case you didn’t know. Me (one of the Guardians) already back in early 2018 wanted to contribute with German and Italian translations. I also invited Portuguese/Brazil community members to do so, and I asked for support in form of some official publication, some mentioning on their public channels, and to organize a translation management platform where many community members can collaborate in an effcient way.
Unfortunately not one single subtitles-translation for whiteboard videos was ever accepted (yes they are available in GER, RUS, KOR). Also this attempt
https://github.com/CardanodocTranslations/cardanodocs.translations/tree/master/_docs
failed because it was never considered by official side.

So @Jotunn can you please point out what exactly you mean?

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24

I don’t think we have a problem with the Cardano Foundation but only with the behaviour of the board members. I’m sure this can and will be changed. Being a foundation makes me very positive that the CF leaders cannot just rob the foundation. I would not like to have this changed into another form of organisation in a different country with different rules. The US is huge, very powerful, thinks it’s even more powerful and in the past years it’s governance became more and more influenced by feelings than by facts. Switzerland is quite the opposite. I would prefer to stick to Switzerland as a base for Cardano Foundation (or whatever might come after it). I have no idea if this is possible by the regulations for a swiss foundation but in my opinion the board of CF should be elected from the Cardano community (how is the commiunity defined…?).
@GuardiansOfCardano
I appreciate your work very much but I too have a strange feeling when you write here as an individual in the name of the complete group. We don’t know who of the Guardians is the one writing and if I would be one of the Guardians I wouldn’t like that you write that much in my name. I think that the “GuardiansOfCardano” account should be used only very rarely and only for statements which are approved by every Guardian. All the rest should be written using the individual accounts.

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25

As one of the signatories I actually agree with this.

Also, as it happens, with everything else you say there. :grinning:

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26

you’re absolutely right on this. (Wirklich!)

There was - and still are - so much majority polls in our stream, that sometimes it’s easier to just go out with a personal opinion, even if then turns out it is a consent opinion. Or in other words: the fact of being a member shouldn’t deny to speak as individuals.

In case you refer to the 2 posts preceeding yours, it was accidentally a personal message, because it not even is a Guardians topic or opinion expressed, but simply
1.) a personal comparison I did
2.) a list of facts happened in the whole 2018 and far before the whole CF-issue came up.

Here is another personal opinion:
I really hope that the Guardians will become quiet and (finally) sleep longer. I really hope that we all can find ways to organize a constructive way for community building. It’s absolutely clear that this can’t be achieved by a small group of self-proclaimed, non-elected “Guardians”.

Please note that we deliberately did not appear as “the anonymous”, but with clear names. It is fitting that the group in which we work together also has a name or an identity. Of course another person or group can appear as “the anonymous Cardano warriors” at any time and claim to be 500. But then I would ask myself if this is true and what they actually want to achieve in their anonymity.

Approching constructive, sustainable and organic community building IMO requires many more people who think, act and create independently. They can exchange ideas in different forums and channels, form opinions, conduct surveys and offer solutions. The Guardians will never be able to control this centrally, and thats absolutely fine. We’d soon end up in a similar mess as we’ve seen before.

But it must also be clear that what was published in the first letter and is still published today could never have been achieved by a single person acting alone. I myself have learned a lot in the last few weeks and seen how helpful it is when a small efficient group with different skills assembles to achieve something. The result is nothing more than an offer. In fact, nobody must agree or even read our letters.

Please don’t let anyone think that any of our internal votes had anything to do with whether we wanted the fellowship this way or that way, steering it here or there. It is about the best possible formulation, about mutual understanding of the quite complex and extensive studies and results, and much more. Our letters do not contain ready-made opinions or accusations, but sourced information and questions, with the help of which everyone can make his own picture.

mfG / kind Regards

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27

Rather than addressing each, I have rolled my response below:

I started this post to bring to everyone’s attention, including the Cardano Foundation, IOHK, and Emurgo the possibility that comes from a Social Purpose Corporation.

That possibility has the power of oversight into the future Cardano Foundation, avoiding for all time what we all are witnessing.

This post is titled:

The Cardano Foundation is over, now let’s make that a good thing.

I sincerely believe that a Social Purpose Corporation could fulfill on that title, now and perpetually forward for as long as needed.

Read what I have written in this post again, as you do so separate your emotions from work. Learn to appreciate the ideas and work of people who you might otherwise not on their merit, for it is from that vantage point that a sustainable Cardano community will prosper.

Note, I posted this in the general category, for all to see, not behind walls or a clock. At no point did I say I would be a board member, thus who I am is irreverent, bringing to question my morality is a failing of all who do, please understand what I am saying.

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28

Great idea.

I hope everyone who wants to see the community flourish can agree it is better to collaborate rather than place emphasis on differences and disagreements.

:slight_smile:

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29

Let’s continue our exploration of a social purpose corporation by exploring the number one reason why many governments are against cryptocurrencies:

Money Laundering Reaches Record Highs

Data collected by CipherTrace shows that $761 million has already been laundered via cryptocurrencies this year.

2018 Q3 Cryptocurrency Anti-Money Laundering Report Summary 97% of Criminal Bitcoin Directly Received by Exchanges Flowed into Those Located in Countries with Weak AML Laws

The report clearly shows the target is Countries with Weak AML Laws.

Back to Cardano, does it support, in and of itself, Money Laundering?

I’m inviting @Clio.1 https://clio.one and @bovich of https://adascan.net to directly answer this, if they so choose, as both have opened up Cardano blockchain explorers to the community.

Why am I bring this up?

One of the Cardano Foundations purposes is in shaping legislation and commercial standards.

Switzerland is not the only country that should recognize the good in our space, by having established an SPC in the USA, Cardano gains an entity that can and should defend its purpose, a corporation gives legitimacy to that end.

30

kudos to the GuardiansOfCardano. Glad to hear the second initiative, Swiss residents is in place. They need to be aggressive in their approach but yes, complete the investigation first.

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31

The second initiative is complicated and the GoC invite all interested community members to join the investigation, read the second open letter at https://www.guardiansofcardano.com

@Jotunn I believe Cardano is not supportive of Money Laundering, yet anyone could use any type of currency to launder money and so it would be possible even here

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32

That’s basically true, however Cardano does differ from most or all other cryptos in this:

A major innovation of Cardano is that it will balance the needs of users with those of regulators, and in doing so combine privacy with regulation. The vision for Cardano is that its new style of regulated computing will bring greater financial inclusion by providing open access for all to fair financial services.

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33

100% Spot-on!

What better way to make that a reality than to have corporation status, SPC.

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34

Sorry to disagree but I think it’s better to have these principles designed into the system itself, which is what’s happening.

Edit: come to think of it, these are compatible, working from opposite ends towards the middle.

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35

I agree, still, we are left today with hoping the next CF dictator is a benevolent one.

oops, just caught your edit

Edit: come to think of it, these are compatible, working from opposite ends towards the middle.

Cheers,

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36

I am not aware of any anonymization technologies that Cardano currently support. Blockchain is public. You can track everything. Yes ADA within a wallet is not tied to people, but rather to one or more specific keys. Thereby, ADA owners are not identifiable, but all transactions are publicly available in the blockchain. Exchanges are required by law to collect the personal information of their users. So in case of some investigation there will be no problem to track down person. Alexander Vinnik - most recent example.

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37

Thank you @bovich, this is precisely what an SPC could bring to the attention of the U.S. government the falsehood of such claims, after all, they would be impacting Cardano’s social purpose by making such all-inclusive claims, which would be bad for business, falling into the unfair business practice, fighting fire with fire as it were. :wink:

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38

I unsigned the Guardians petition, against my better judgment I signed it in the first place and unsigned it as it became crystal clear that actions such as what is happening come to nothing but bad for business. Not petitions, but the uncivil actions of the crowd, as I am receiving hostile emails because of my stance on this matter, I can project forward what CF is receiving.

Make no mistake on this, the perception and reality of how the Cardano community handles disagreements matters a lot.

Nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM Blockchain

When the CF issue gets resolved, and it will get resolved views such as what @RobJF shared on Twitter will only empower the same further actions the next time this happens, and it will happen again as no lasting solution has come forth out of this failure.

https://twitter.com/RobinFaichney/status/1059040087093231616

Send all future hate email to: Denial @jotunn.com

39

Is that what you call hostile email??? Hate email??? :rofl:

ATM it seems to be the only reply you’ve had…

and no likes either…

40

Nice one-liner, but no your tweet is not anywhere the caliber of “f*** you and die you pacifist shit.”