Withdraw ₳4,000,000 for Expanding Stablecoin / Cardano Native Asset Support / Fiat Ramps - Yay or Nay?

As Terminada DRep I voted No on this withdrawal with the following vote context:

Come on Emurgo, you were given a truck load of genesis Ada and tasked with developing Cardano’s commercial adoption. Please use your genesis gifted Ada for this project. Furthermore, it would be profitable for private investors to issue non-interest bearing stable coins while pocketing the yield on the treasuries used as the backing for these stable coins.

Today I received a private Matrix message from William Ryan which contained a lot of extra information about this proposal. He must be working for, or at least supporting, the Anzens team which is the vendor for this treasury withdrawal. Rather than talk in private, I would prefer to have a public discussion about the merits of the proposal. I have therefore replied to William asking that he re-post his arguments for public discussion on this forum.

2 Likes

Great! Thank you Terminada for the opportunity to clear this up!

I reached out (yes as a representative of Anzens) to hopefully earn your support for our budget proposal, as we believe that we are well aligned with the Cardano community’s core missions, and seek to bring the much needed stablecoin liquidity and drive adoption for both ADA and CNTs into the broader crypto markets.

We did see your rationale on your vote, and wanted to respectfully reach out and try to clear up some general misconceptions - and hope to possibly earn a yes or abstain from you in light of this new information.

So first point, while we would love to be supported by genesis ADA, we want to make it clear that we are not EMURGO and therefore do not have access to these resources. Anzens is an Encryptus Global product entirely, and is not owned in any way by EMURGO. We have not received any financial funding or ADA from them, nor do they have any stake/equity in Anzens. We are wholly our own entity.

What is EMURGO’s role? They are our technology partner. When we came into Cardano, we brought with us years of experience building Web2 <> Web3 financial infrastructure, fiat ramps, payment rails, and trading desks. As the technology partner, they helped us build the minting and burning platform, and we used our funding, experience, and partnerships to bring $USDA to market.

But we didn’t stop there: our mission is to be successful and use every tool in our kit to drive adoption for CNTs (as we are one). What does that look like? Offramps in 48 countries, with plans to scale to many more emerging markets. You can cashout your $USDA for local fiat currency in as few as 3 minutes - and we’ve done so without reliance on SWIFT.

We are working with our partners, NEO banks, institutions, OTC desks, and wallets to bring Cardano to a wider audience. Most recently, we listed USDA versus USDT on Coinstore, where they are offering 0 fee trading against Tether. Additionally, any other CNT can list with us too for a very modest listing fee ($10K) and no other requirements or marketing campaigns are required.

We have gotten 4 CNTs and ADA listed on CipherBC, an institutional grade MPC wallet designed for web2 and web3 businesses managing cryptocurrencies.

We recently completed our first withdrawal to Japan, and will soon be able to offer withdrawals there, and we have a keen focus especially in emerging markets within India, LATAM, Africa, and Asia. Anzens also presently supports a growing number of US states (14 right now), and our qualified custodian is BitGo. We have monthly attestation, and provide services all across the world without the need to visit an exchange.

We have taken it this far, but we need the community’s support to continue to scale our ability to integrate into new geographies, new exchanges, and wallets. We believe wholly that Cardano can compete on the larger stage and we can capture some of Tether’s volume. Stablecoins account for two-thirds of all volume within the crypto market, but we sit in 41st place for Total Value Locked, and it is our mission to tap into that larger market and bring real liquidity into the space.

We are onboarding RWAs and NEO Banks as well. We recently partnered with SH Financial to bring European IBANS to web3 businesses running on Cardano, allowing them to send/receive and/or pay vendors, employees, and so forth within Europe from anywhere else in the world.

We are also highly collaborative and willing to work with almost anyone in our space. We are presently working to onboard and support additional Cardano wallets in our minting/burning platform, and we will provide offramp services to any Cardano wallet who wants to integrate with our API. We will soon offer onramp services as well.

I have personally been in Cardano since 2017, and I love Charles’ vision, that’s why I bought in, but one of the things that many of us have always complained about is a lack of interest for builders to build on Cardano. Encryptus is that builder. They came from outside Cardano to invest and bet on Anzens USDA with their own money (I know I’m randomly speaking in 3rd person here, but I was in Cardano long before I worked here so I speak now as someone outside of Encryptus), and have brought USDA to market this far , and I personally think it’s great - and I’m thankful. I would love to see you support it as well. I know I work there, but I think that type of builder should be encouraged and supported. We need companies like Encryptus building on Cardano in my opinion.

And as a final note, although there is more, I would like to add that we do not view the funding proposal as a gift. It is an investment into Cardano, and we will use our real revenue streams (which are functional today) to repay every lovelace to the treasury. 20% of Anzens’ revenue, and 10% of Encryptus’ revenue will be paid until it is all returned. Our infra isn’t theoretical. It’s live today.

I believe a vote for Anzens is a vote for Cardano, and I do hope you will reconsider. If you have more questions, please do leave them for me, and either myself, or our CEO Shantnoo would be delighted to chat about it.

We’ll also be at Rare Evo if you want to meet up there. That goes for anyone reading this as well. Look for us. Say hi!

All the best,

William

1 Like

dear @Terminada - I composed this message to you also by PM on Matrix, and at the last minute decided to drag it out into the open: since I believe these issues are of general interest. As memory serves, this was the stablecoin project that Emurgo was developing:

Nothing apparently came out of it except this stablecoin on Ergo (the Ergo Foundation, besides IOG, was the other partner for that project):

… which to my knowledge was never seen on Cardano, and whose only remnant I can find today is a web site that’s down now (I had it bookmarked form 2021): sigmausd.io

The Anzens team would have my vote if I had registered as a dRep in time for this voting caucus. As I told you by PM earlier, they’ve privately promised me a public response about this vital issue in their roadmap:

… specifically, whether & how their service will support retail use: vs. just being a B2B partner, leaving end-user services to an unknowable array of companies in a potentially fragmented service market: like the chaos that we see all over the payments industry. If available directly to retail, it would be worth to the community every lovelace of the budget they are asking for — and vital to me as both a producer and consumer on Cardano.

Someday :100: of my income will see the fiat world through a service like this and I don’t yet see any reason why Anzens isn’t prepared to be that service. Until then, my own assessment of their business requirements suggests that they will have to bear, not just development costs, but compliance costs: which can be daunting. If detail about all this is available (I haven’t looked for it) then I believe it would help to see a digest here (or linked / copied from the proposal if it’s already been prepared).

2 Likes

Ehm, USDA/Anzens has little to do with that.

Well, it’s the same system as Djed and that has been brought to Cardano – for some reason with a totally different operator. If it is a good system is a different question.

??? Isn’t down for me at all.

Anyway, AgeUSD/SigmaUSD/Djed are algorithmic/crypto-backed stablecoins, something totally different than what Anzens is building.

USDA was first attempted by Emurgo:
https://www.emurgo.io/press-news/emurgo-introduces-first-usd-backed-stablecoin-for-the-cardano-ecosystem/
But that failed after some time:
https://www.emurgo.io/press-news/a-product-update-on-anzens-and-usda-stablecoin/
And was then brought back with Emurgo only being a “technology provider”, but seemingly not responsible for the business side of things anymore:
https://www.emurgo.io/press-news/cardano-stablecoin-usda-to-resume-launch-under-new-ownership/

3 Likes

@HeptaSean that was exactly my point.

2 Likes

I don’t understand at all what that point is.

2 Likes

Ehm, I can see that. The vote context quoted in the original post claimed that the Anzens project was a continuation of Emurgo’s funded efforts to develop commercial integrations, including a stablecoin. This reference was clearly to establish — as @Willi_ammmm also confirmed — that they are 2 distinct projects. What point were you trying to make?

2 Likes

But it is a continuation of an Emurgo project. And that has nothing to do with the ancient AgeUSD project that is completely irrelevant here.

USDA was also originally an Emurgo project as shown by the article I very clearly linked above.

Only after they horribly failed with that project, they searched a new operator for it and that operator became Encryptus/Anzens.

3 Likes

Correct.

We have an official statement here:

Thank you for allowing us to clear things up!

2 Likes

I will address these tomorrow as well, I haven’t forgotten about you. Heading to bed but I’ll pop back in here in the morning.

2 Likes

@Terminada response from our CEO Shantnoo Saxena

Thank you for taking the time to review our proposal and share your feedback. We appreciate the depth of thought you’ve put into your response, and we would like to offer some clarification and additional context from the perspective of both Anzens and Encryptus, who are jointly driving this initiative.

On the Relationship Between Anzens and USDA

You are correct, Anzens is indeed the issuing entity behind USDA, the Cardano-native, fully backed stablecoin. The Encryptus team contributed on operations, compliance, and implementation, while EMURGO was the pure tech partner who helped build the tech stack. In addition, Encryptus’ global payout network was plugged into Anzens to offer one of the unique capabilities of offramping USDA to USD and USD back to fiat in 48+ countries.

The payout network is owned and managed by Encryptus. We would also like to clarify that we are not merely a commercial venture, but a purpose-built platform to bring a regulatory grade fiat ecosystem that connects the Web3 with the Web2 world on the Cardano blockchain. This is not a future plan, but in fact fully working and implemented. We’re not waiting to build it. It’s built. We’re now expanding, and that’s where we need your support.

Why Are Cardano Native Assets Underrepresented on CEXs and OTC Desks?

You’re absolutely right to question the root cause of this under-representation, and we agree this has long been a strategic pain point. From our experience working with exchanges, custodians, and OTC desks globally, here are the primary barriers:

  • Lack of Institutional-Grade On/Off-Ramps: Unlike Ethereum-based assets, Cardano native assets lacked a plug-and-play fiat gateway infrastructure until recently. Encryptus is now solving that, enabling USDA to be off-ramped directly to 46 countries.

  • Custodial Complexity / Wallet Ecosystem: Many major custodians do not support Cardano native assets. This makes it extremely difficult for CNTs to grow because of the lack of support. Anzens, through its personal relationship with CipherBC (MPC Wallets), activated support for CNTs on their ecosystem. It just went live 3 weeks back.

  • Liquidity Fragmentation & Market Skepticism: Without stablecoin pairs and fiat exits, liquidity providers and market makers have found it challenging to deploy capital into Cardano DeFi tokens on CEXs.

  • Listing on Exchanges: This, again, comes from personal experience. While USDA got listed on a Tier 2 exchange called Coinstore, the tech team at the exchange had to go through a lot of documentation to activate support for USDA on Cardano. We finally got this done with the necessary support from CF tech and documentation. We are going through the hard way but making sure that we take the Cardano ecosystem to a larger community.

  • USDT / USDA: At Anzens, we are thinking common sense and therefore launching a USDT/USDA pair on the centralized exchange Coinstore with ZERO trading fees. New listings on this exchange will have exclusive pairs against USDA and not USDT, which means the exchange users must convert their USDT to USDA in order to trade. Secondly, we have negotiated benefits for Cardano assets that pair with USDA, they would receive lower listing fees (up to 50% discount on listing fees) and zero trading fees.

Implementing and executing the above requires technology enhancements, liquidity on centralized exchanges, and building fiat pairs. If a $30b market cap project needs growth, we will have to push in from all angles. I sincerely hope that my point is taken in the right spirit. At Encryptus, we first delivered results by building tech, then fiat liquidity on ADA, and for doing this we did not ask for grants first. We have a builder’s mindset, and at this stage, we definitely need support from the Cardano community. We have taken a hard and long path, and we will make our efforts count.

Regarding Genesis ADA

Unfortunately, we cannot comment on this because neither were we a part of it nor did we request anything. Anzens as an entity has zero access to such “Genesis ADA” and we are independent from all of the Cardano founding entities. We have been asked this question before, and I can clarify EMURGO’s role is limited strictly to being a technology provider to Anzens. In other words, they helped us build the minting/burning platform specifically for Cardano, as they brought extensive experience building on its unique model.

EMURGO specifically contributed the technology infrastructure for minting and burning USDA on the Cardano blockchain. EMURGO does not hold any equity, nor does it participate in the governance, decision-making, or day-to-day operations of Anzens or Encryptus.

Public Good vs Business Expansion

We fully acknowledge your concern around distinguishing public goods from private interests. Here’s what this proposal explicitly delivers as public goods:

  • Custodian and Fiat Ramp Integrations: The infrastructure that we have is not exclusively for Anzens; it’s actually open for all. For clarification purposes, we are speaking with several projects to see how we can work together and support them.

  • Developer APIs and SDKs: Open APIs for fiat ramps, compliance, and onboarding are already available via Encryptus. Stablecoin issuance/burning requires legal and compliance approvals. We just launched USDA, and we definitely have APIs for stablecoin business as a part of our roadmap.

  • Global OTC Network Access: We are opening access to our established OTC desk integrations for other Cardano projects, not just Anzens.

This is not a USDA-only proposal, nor is it intended to benefit only one entity. We are building an infrastructure layer for Cardano because we strongly believe the success of the Cardano ecosystem hinges on shared utility, liquidity, and access. Most importantly we giving back to the community from the Yields that we would generate.

Our Commitment to Repayment

As far as we are aware, only two proposals in the entire budget have committed to repayment. But we strongly believe that if a product has value, then it can repay subsidies and this is not a loan or gift. The other project is Haus.

On the Size and Scope of the Treasury Request

₳4,000,000 is a meaningful ask, and we agree it requires scrutiny. But the scope is not narrow. It funds:

  • Integration of multiple global custodians and fiat ramps
  • Exchange listing fees and ongoing market maker support
  • OTC liquidity enablement for Cardano-native assets
  • Community SDKs, API suites, and technical documentation

All of this is executed with transparent milestone-based disbursements, verifiable deliverables, and open reporting. The cost of such integrations is high because most global custodians, fiat pools, market makers, and exchanges charge heavily.

Collaborative Potential

We welcome your suggestion about collaboration with other stablecoin issuers. We are already in touch with other players in the Cardano ecosystem and are committed to ensuring this infrastructure benefits all.

We thank you again for your candid feedback. We are not asking for trust in us as a company, but we are asking for support in building ecosystem-wide infrastructure that addresses persistent gaps holding back Cardano’s native assets.

I personally hope that you can support us in this mission, and if there is anything else we can do to ease any concerns - whether that be a meeting, call, or continuing the conversation here, we’re happy to do it. We will be at RareEvo and would love to connect.

Warmly,

Shantnoo Saxena

3 Likes

Is the suggestion here that such a project is within the remit of Emurgo to fund?

2 Likes

I was surprised this morning to find that many of these statements were already made in public:

… while all I’d seen here on the Cardano Forum, before this thread, were links to emaciated X postings with only headlines & marketing sound-bites but no deep information or references (hence my question here: still unanswered after more than 2 weeks).

Without taking sides about whether the funding proposal is promising, I feel that whatever legitimate promise of this proposal & existing business is getting buried from slow, incomplete & unimpressive public relations.

It’s not for lack of effort that I’ve been going over this business proposal & proposal for 2 weeks and only found this information resource now. The Medium feed (not even linked on the home page at this time) had 4 followers when I found it (now 5)… I know small-time Cardano bloggers that are doing better from signing up their family members.

@Willi_ammmm maybe then you could also explain how PR fits into the proposal: since this seems related both to expectations of liquidity and to community value of the related APIs/SDKs that you propose.

3 Likes

That is what we are trying to dispel. They are not going to fund us and they really have no stake in our company. We’d love the help, but we’re on our own.

1 Like

Thank you for the feedback. I did mention that to you we had not forgotten about you, but I wanted to be sure you got the right answers. To be frank with you, I started less than two months ago, so rather than answer something incorrectly, I wanted to be sure that you got the attention you deserve - with a detailed reply, which I hope you can appreciate.

Regarding public relations, it is true, much of our focus has been on X and this vote. I am working to generate and create more blogs for sure. All of the recent blogs that have been posted on Medium were me.

I’m not really surprised about the follower count, the account was dormant until recently. But I have posted four blogs in the last two months to try to remedy that. If you have specific things you’d like to see there, I would love to hear them. We are always open to feedback, and I very much am always trying to improve, so I will take this feedback and internalize it, and try to be better.

Regarding the X posts on CForum, I am happy to expand on them in the future. I wanted to crosspost it so people could comment back on the original post, but that can also limit the amount of info provided, so in the future, I’ll happily provide more context when posting on Cardano Forums. Thank you for the detailed feedback.

Hope you understand!

2 Likes

I have concerns about spending any treasury funds on:

  • Market making. I think arbitrager profit incentives should be sufficient.
  • Paying CEXs to list tokens.

Though, much of what Anzens is asking for seems targeted at developing software, smart contracts, business and banking arrangements. But, there are no guarantees that Anzens and Encryptus will do everything they say.

I have concerns about currency conversion fees for those who have a native fiat currency other than USD. When using non-USD fiat it might still be cheaper to on/off ramp using a CEX if the CEX has an Ada trading pair with that non-USD fiat currency.

Stable coins are a killer app we need. It is very frustrating that Emurgo hasn’t built and integrated this stable coin architecture and paid the costs required using its gifted genesis Ada. This type of infrastructure project seems to be exactly what the genesis Ada gifted to Emurgo was supposed to have been used for.

I have changed my vote to “Yes” on this treasury withdrawal and referenced this forum thread in my vote context. I did not feel any pressure to change my vote. However, my decision to do so was influenced by @COSDpool’s insightful comments as well as the responses to his questions in this thread as well as the other Cardano Forum thread: Anzens Partners with SHPayments to Provide EU IBANs to Web3 Businesses

3 Likes

I plan to talk more about this. I just wanted to cover a couple quick points.

  1. Thank you. It really means a great deal to us.

  2. The fee is 1.5%. I looked up the rate at the time of tx and it was .858 at approx 1400UTC. Our Exchange is calculated at the time of withdrawal. So the withdrawal does look correct, BUT I do see your points. We can and will do better on communicating this via the UI. People should have a clear understanding of where every penny is going. This is v1 of the platform and I’ll be ensuring this gets brought up for a fix. We certainly don’t want any questions about our fees or integrity regarding transactions.

  3. And finally, we are going to bring on ElderMillenial, creator of Steelswap to oversee our milestones. We have already delivered on some of them, and in order to receive the lion’s share of the withdrawal, we have a lot of work to do. We intend to do it.

  4. We will do a live transaction and record it soon, I’ll upload it here. Just to make sure. If there’s a real problem, we will absolutely fix it. I don’t want there to be any questions about this. :handshake:

2 Likes

I think ultimately the fix for minimising currency conversion fee + spread is to have stable coins for all fiat currencies. Eg: I want an AUD stable coin. Then arbitragers will drive down the fee + spread.

1 Like