…iohk summit…

Yes they raise money from VCs. And? What’s it going to be used for? Nothing. Where’s the return on investment?

Check back in 5 years and you’ll see it was a pump and dump.

Algorand is competition to Cardano in the sense that it uses VRFs. There’s no competition when it comes to a decentralized blockchain, you can’t decentralize something that is patented, it’s a non-starter. Ditto for all the other examples you posted. Nothing in any of those patents will ever be adopted as an industry standard or be used by any decentralized blockchain.

The Feudal Lords didn’t understand the industrial revolution, same thing will happen to people with a 20th century business mindset when they get hit over the head with decentralization.

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You’re kidding about this right? The advent of the computer was more of what the Governnent wanted than what a person wanted. The inclusion of a computer into every household gave the government insight on the behavior of almost every American and moreso every person on the planet.

You talk of disruption but you’ve only created another market for the very lawyers you’re saying will be disrupted.

Bill Gates. Yea sincecwhen is it about what the people want. I remember that. I remember Apple decided to give people what they wanted (simplicity) and they somehow managed to account for 90% of ALL mobile phone profits.

Binary Gods. Hoping for a Terminator prophecy to make the light of day are you. Waiting for Vger? The borg? Sure Silicon will rule for some time. Everything changes. If it didn’t, theveormd we be quite boring wouldn’t it. I don’t think that AI will rule the world in my lifetime. Are you saying it will?

blockchain is libertarian, ai is socialist (terminator). read the merkle paper from stanford.

now if you don’t mind, why don’t you start a different thread if you would like to argue about it. it seems you have hijacked this thread.

I don’t mind. I’ll read the paper. I only responded therefore I did not hijack the thread. You’re right though, the courteous thing to do would be to have a separate thread to properly index the relevant discussions.

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thanks buddy

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Legislation where? The US? It seems like some countries are eager to see what blockchain solutions can do for them.

What do you think that you do when you apply for a loan at a bank? You give your identity, you show income history, credit history, etc… It’s no different.

That’s like saying “Nintendo already built a gaming console, why would you create a Playstation or an Xbox?” Just because one thing solves a problem does not mean that something else can’t do the same thing in a more effective/efficient manner.

False. I pay for my coffee at my local spot three or four times per week using my Yoroi mobile wallet. Please point me in the direction of a few shop owners that will allow me to pay with Chuck E Cheese tokens. Your statement was huge for shock value but highly fictional.

Do the Tangem cards require active internet access? If they do, I would guess that this will not be the case at some point within the next two years.

It can offer a way to save value. It can offer a way to transfer this value. It can offer a way to receive lending. It can offer access to investment opportunities. It could offer the ability to earn a return on your savings via staking once network transaction fees are greater than the cost to pay stake pools.

Why do I need a replacement debit card? I have an app on my phone that I can pay with. I haven’t called my bank’s customer service line in the last 3 years, why do I need to call it now? And how much is that service really worth to me? Banks make between $800-1k per year off each customer on average. For what? A replacement debit card and a 24-hour customer support line? I’ll happily give up those features for $800 in my pocket at the end of each year.

I should add that the last two times I called my bank it was because I was charged for something that I didn’t authorize. This is because anytime I give someone my credit card, I am trusting them to take the correct amount out of my account. It would be like walking into a grocery store and telling the cashier to go ahead and take my wallet out of my back pocket and then trusting him/her to take the correct amount out. It’s a backwards system that needs reform badly.

Is there a thread for “Most Ignorant Posts” on this forum? You seriously are making an argument for why the guy in Africa should use a bank?! It’s not a choice. The services are not offered in many cases. Statements like this are why Americans have a reputation for being so dense on a global scale.

No one should do that. Not with fiat. Not with crypto. I’m not sure how crypto makes someone take their live savings with them everywhere they go? I can use different wallet addresses in much the same way that I don’t move my entire life savings into my debit card linked checking account before I go on vacation. Maybe the best option is just to take a credit card like you do today. “Problem” solved.


The guy makes exaggerated statements and brings 1234234k random google links just to argue with everyone, I personally stopped taking him seriously after his following statement in this thread:

Reminds me of Craig Wright (Faketoshi).


I totally agree! I personally cannot even read his posts anymore.


The context of your quote is wrt discourse between Yeshuaschildren & Michael94588. They have evidently come to terms on various points in a beneficial way. Does this not fulfill one of this forum’s primary functions: A place of collaborative learning?

We are many personalities coming together for a common purpose. The malignant narcissist is a statistical outlier here, just as they are ‘out there’, the difference is in here, we can’t simply walk in another door to avoid them, they have to be put in ‘remission’ fbo the greater good.

Some of the conversations here have been thought provoking, and an exemplar of well-mannered intelligent argument where the participants have invested large blocks of time.

Here’s to more intelligent-argument and to less ignorant-distractions.


I never said countries aren’t interested in it for a particular use. As for legislation:

There is a lot of readin you should do to understand country acceptance as legal tender as well as countries looking to ban Bitcoin outright (India, for example). Last I heard, there are a more than a billion people there. Not only that, they have one of, if not, the largest population of unbanked people. Hey, wasnt that the market we’re shooting for?

As far as digital identities, what dont you understand about the difference of providing an identity and creating one? When you apply for a loan, you are PROVIDING an identity issued by the government. In my example of using a wallet, you are CREATING an identity, namely the wallet as a source of reference.

BTC and USD already providing the use case. Sure use the video game example. Sets Genesis? Atari 2600? 5200? Colecovision? Intellevision? All gone. USD, still here. It’s can be a use case sure, I can agree to that. Anyone can make a coin, anyone can say something has value. But the government wont back all of them now will they?

Paid for coffee using Yoroi. Sure. Can we see the Tx IDs? If not where is this coffee shop and the name? It’s in the US? Chuck E Cheese currently has 608 locations. As far as using the tokens, these are standard issue tokens that for one reason or another work at bathroom stalls, car washes, and other arcades. Ive tried it, it works. Sometimes it doesnt but often times it does. The reason is because they are cheap to make and the use case is cheap as well. A token for a few minutes on a game, who is going to mint arcade tokens to play games, right? But a couple hundred over the course of a year, yea no big deal.

Tangem: OK try this. Load a Tangem card up with money. Leave it at home, try and extract money from that card without you having physical access to the card. Can’t do it right?

Name the services: I already gave you money transfer. Lending is not an option right now and dont say “its a way for my friend to lend me money” that falls under the scope of money transfer. Loans are provided by business or institution and these are not currently available. Storing value or an investment? The only investment is what you and I are currently participating in. You can invest in comic books or almost anything. The SEC has made no determination as to Cardano therefore this is not completely true right now.

I’m glad you admit to having a bank account. Now transfer everything into your Yoroi wallet. Good luck surviving off of coffee and scones. The reference to losing a card does not refer directly to you. It’s the many thousands of people that this does happen to. You’re fortunate that you have never lost a card, but I’m sure you must have received a new one after they expire or the move to chip cards?

OK so we do agree that you dont store all money in one wallet. So that use case is not one. People should store in multiple wallets based on what I have read. Other wallets include cold wallets, hot wallets, and card wallets.

Now with that being said, how about answering the point that i brought up instead of picking through things to find counterpoints to. At least do me that one favor. if at least two wallets, two wallets to upgrade, two seeds to remember, two cold wallets or two cards, etc. Agree?

I wish I could go. Thought I could brib…errrr convince my wife that a trip to Walt Disney World and that it was just a coincidence that something pertaining to Cardano was also taking place. She saw right through that. Especially, when I said I was going to go by myself and would need about 20,000 ADA’s worth of USD to fund the trip (current ADA price at the time of this being written).

I really wanted to go, but being newly married and still trying to amass furniture and other home goods comes first… I guess …

When I was in the Army and out training. All I had was a cot and sleeping bag for my furniture. My brain bucket or backpack were pillows, and my NVG’s to count shooting stars when I was doing night guard.

Wives have it too easy.

If not this year, then next. She knows how passionate I am about Cardano. I think she even knows the voices of Charles and the guys from The Cardano Effect and can name them from just then talking. As I’m always playing their videos on my phone as she’s trying to sleep.

Hope there are more opportunities in the States this year to observe, wonder, and ponder about the stuff the Cardano Platform has in the works currently and beyond.

Thank you for sending me several articles from over 12 months ago. I agree that some countries are not open minded about allowing cryptocurrencies in their jurisdiction. The great thing about cryptos is that they operate on a global scale. Plenty of other countries can act as sandboxes for new tech. If it works out, it can be of huge benefit for them. It’s funny that you point out India… Did Emurgo not just enter India with the intention of doing a massive education pilot? Maybe you can help me out with understanding why they would do this? It seems like it’s gotta be a foolish move from your point of view?!

I understand the concept fairly comfortably.

Video games have a very different market cycle timeline than money… That doesn’t that they are any different from one another. If money evolved this quickly, it would never work. The point is that each platform iteration is an enhanced version of the previous. Cryptocurrencies (with time) will offer these same benefits over traditional fiat.

Does the government need to accept something to make it valuable? The government doesn’t accept shares of IBM as a form of payment, nor do they accept rare pieces of art, nor real estate, etc… Yet all of these assets have value for various reasons. ADA can have a use case that gives it value without needing to have the government recognize it as a national currency.

Not worth the effort. If you choose not to believe me, then I don’t really care. We’re two people that are passionate about cryptocurrencies and think it’s fun to transact in that manner.

So you just admitted to stealing from bathroom owners, car washes and arcades? What a strong argument for why Chuck E Cheese tokens have value… “Hey everyone, these tokens have value, because they allow you to steal from other people!”

Have you been to Dave and Buster’s? They only use electronic cards that you have to load. Your jig is up, my man! No more freeloading off all those Chuck E Cheese tokens that you’ve been hoarding.

Do the same thing with your ATM card. How does that work? Try calling your bank and convincing them that you are who you say you are and get them to send you money. Can’t do it right?

But understanding how DLT works, it isn’t hard to understand how this will be done in the future. No one is looking at cryptocurrencies today and making the argument that they can compete with traditional legacy systems. We are talking about what can be built over the coming 5-10 years.

I have sold land via seller financing. It’s called Contract for Deed. Peer to peer lending is a thing. Just because it’s not prevalent in our current system does not mean that it isn’t a thing.

Well kind of, but not really. The investors were the ones that initially put up capital to fund the venture. ICOs are a mechanism to allow individuals to raise capital while offering a digital asset in return. While the current way of performing these is extremely flawed and unregulated, it does show how the investment side can be done. In the future these types of opportunities could allow countries to get crowd-funding for things such as solar farms, transportation infrastructure or for large scale agricultural purposes.

Thanks. I had a hard time coming to terms with it, but I finally was able to admit it??? /s

No one made an argument for crypto being more accepted than fiat.

This is why Charles has talked about Tangem cards and the need to have a two card system. One is a recovery card, while the other is for spending.

Yes, you have multiple seeds to manage. Oh no! :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

On a complete side note… You seem very pessimistic about use cases for cryptocurrencies. Do you mind me asking why you spend so much time on this board posting extremely near-sighted viewpoints? I have no problem with you being a naysayer, but it seems strange how much time and effort you put into following this board, while never offering any substance to explain why you have money (supposedly) invested in Cardano.


Please copy and reply to Advantages and Disadvantages of Crypto forum topic. My posts are being deleted and ppl are right that this thread shouldn’t be hijacked for this topic. Thanks!

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Replied on this thread.

Tired of being flagged and deleted.

As far as investment. Like I said, I’m in it only for the money, period. I dont plan on being a bag holder and at this rate, I’m not. Made back my initial investment and some. And reasons for what you see as being a naysayer, spreading FUD or whatever are not what you think. Someone has to keep this game honest. If you want to make money where do you go? You go where there is money? Where do you go to sell cars? You go to where there is money to buy your car. I doubt there are many Lambos traveling around Kilimanjaro. So me pointing out the areas where adoption would occur faster is nothing more than a thought of how much Ada would be worth if it was deployed in a location where uptake would be faster. Don’t tell me you think Amazon would be more successful if it started in Africa…??? C’mon be honest now, you know what the answer to that is. My other comments are also legitimate. Where you or I can afford 1,2,3 or more nanos that may not be the case form someone in Nigeria. Where I may transact amounts and not worry so much about a small loss, that same amount might translate into a lot of money for someone else in another country who then may not want to risk losing it all on forgetting a mistake, not being able to update a wallet, have a bad experience with syncing, lose it on an unofficial wallet, all of which can result in bad word of mouth. Ive had a money stolen from a wallet before but to be honest I dont even know the name of the maker of the wallet to raise a fuss mostly because the amount didnt matter and the wallet had nothing to do with the reason for money being taken out of it. On the other hand, if someone loses a cold wallet, forgets their seed or correct sequence which we know happens cause it’s been in the forum a couple times, is unable to update, has syncing issues, time synchronization is bad, etc etc…that can have a serious effect on word of mouth. Not being able to get your funds back because of a mistake can result in much of the same. Adoption and forgiveness would be better in a developed country is what I’m driving at. As for price, it would increase through adoption. Increase in price means increase in cheddar cheese.

For you:

I watched this AMA after it was released; based on my recollection, I believe the message was that if we fail to comprehend the fundamental importance of decentralized blockchain tech over the camouflaged, current money system’s centralized blockchain product ie. legacy financial system’s trillion (daily transaction value) dollar leverage into centralized blockchain ‘solutions’, then blockchain’s potential benefits to humanity will have been sabotaged; driven past the tipping-point, fueled by our ignorance.

He never stated or even alluded, no mass adoption will occur in 3-5 years, therefor game over. It you didn’t intend this interpretation then please correct or clarify.

Sabotage is subjective. I wont get into philosophical viewpoints on this. The point is however very clear. Charles is not a stupid man. Charles is also very aware of what he says and its implications. I think he has made the point very clear that hardware manufacturers decide what gets into secure elements and what does not. If they have a competing “product”, and I use that term loosely, then Cardano or any other coin for that matter will not be able to compete. Trying to teach the masses about the philosophy of decentralization and its benefits will only be met with the real world concerns I have brought up. Add that to the fact that elected officials will be concerned about the ability to circumvent sanctions, and they have a real issue to campaign on.

So with that, you can say camouflaged or whatever, the buy in depends on the consumer and not the speculator. What compelling argument will you, Charles, Vitalik or anyone else say to the masses that a centralized protocol does not address. How will the debates on the merits of the technologies be made. If it is the scare tactic that everything will one day crumble, that madness wont work. How much 25 year shelf life food stores, guns, and prepper bunkers do you have? Most of us dont because we trust that the system will work through the issues it has. That “trust” is hard to overcome. I’d like to hear the arguments to overcome this.

Philosophy? No. It’s really important when quoting, paraphrasing, and/or continuing a discussion seeded by another’s thoughts, words, that we make certain to be accurate, and honest. If we error, own the error then make it right.

Yes, this is very much a so called, ‘First World’ entanglement perspective, one that he seems keen on avoiding due to the obvious outcome.

I want very much to say more, and I will when time permits.

Cliff made a mention on posting to another forum so I’ve created one “Advantages and Disadvantages” this discussion is off topic I’d agree and no need for posts to be deleted. I like to read all thoughts regardless if I agree or not. Sometimes they change my mind or ninfluence it in another direction.