…iohk summit…


#22

:rofl:lol, hey that’s still a valid choice :face_with_monocle: … you might be able to edit your selection… i think… :thinking:

anyway, what did you mean to select? i’m assuming option one given that emurgo will be paying?

this is why we need anonymous voting mechanisms, eliminating the social pressures to vote a certain way that would conflict with how one truly feels…


#23

I would never to an intercontinental flight for it and pay hundrets or even thousands of dollars. I’m not really sure what it is for. If it’s not just a party of rich fan-boys then what about the developers? I assume that it’s a whole lot of money for most of them. Is it for companies to network? And what’s the meaning of paying an extra thousand dollars for a dinner with Charles? I think he would prefer to have a good conversation with an ethiopian programmer instead of a rich american fan-boy.
I know that they have expenses to cover. The huge spread between early bird and late participants is therefore kind of strange. If most participants register early, do they cover the costs? If so, why is it so expensive later on? If not, why going for this risk?


#24

@Michael94588
While I have been skeptical about the merits of open source, I have to agree with @RobJF that there are indeed valid arguments for it. Especially when it comes to crypto and Cardano’s goal to becoming a mission critical financial platform.


#25

mission critical platform…OK lets go through some mission critical platforms…

  1. US Nuclear Weapons release authority
  2. Mars Rover
  3. International Space Station,
  4. US Airt traffic control

The list goes on and on…ask yourself why these are not open source.


#26

What are you talking about? IOHK is a for profit entity. You really should review the structures behind Cardano.

Who presents the papers at Conferences? Who posts papers and findings? Who posts the code to Github? Who has the most commits and produces most of the Code?

Thank you!

Trust as far as open source…

I’m not going to get into this too deeply. But for starters…

  1. US Nuclear Release authority is not built on Open Source
  2. CEC/CIC on Navy vessels is not open source
  3. Mars Rover and ISS are not open source
  4. Microsoft is not Open Source, Apple is not Open Source, the Google Search Algorithm is not open source and yet you refer to that as a place to search.

As far as trust, its better that some things are open source and some not. Why not open source the alarm schematics to your house? Because while it may be the case that some alarm experts can provide advice to you to fix holes, a bad actor may spot something else.

And as far as open source, I dont need any reference thanks. I’ve had enough exposure to open source since Slackware, Suse, Debian, Ubuntu and a bunch of other projects. Open Source has been out for a long time now and I dont see a viable desktop deployed to the enterprise market. Do you? let me guess, you’re on a open source computer, and you have an android mobile device. Everything you interact with is open source?

Open source doesnt solve every solution. Money drives development, for now.


#27

With all due respect, you are comparing your list of apples to crypto oranges. I appreciate what you are trying to say, but the goals of decentralization and transparency in crypto can only be achieved via open source. These mandates seem to be common to the most popular and successful projects and have been guiding the rules of competition so far…


#28

Closed minded. When private entities make their own block chains you’ll see that I’m right. It does not have to be open source only. Only a fool would believe such a thing.


#29

Well this is the pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps, it would be worthwhile for you to consider the possibility that this is a new model with economic/financial merit?

Private entities are already building and deploying their own centralized blockchains. But, these do/will not serve the same purpose as what Cardano is building.

You are right, it does not have to be and it isn’t (see above).

Right again and there are no fools here.:grinning:


#30

linux is an example of open source. it is used for mission critical servers.


#31

yes, not for long as we’re at a pivotal pivot/tipping point.

the incentives (monetary or ideological) of centralised won’t hold much of a light to decentralised.

this would then translate to more contribution and trust towards, in a virtuous cycle exponentially.


#32

Thanks well aware of that. Show me one open source company that is in the top ten as far as market valuation.

Just to tag on another point so we are squared up. No one is saying that open source is not good, cannot be used for mission critical processes or software. What I am saying, and this is my opinion, is that mission critical parts of software, ip, research, algorithms, or otherwise developed, discovered, or invented by IOHK or any other party participating in the creation of Cardano, should be patented. That is my opinion, period. It seems to me that the foundation is spending a good amount of money to pay people to research, create, and develop a technology and this technology should not be open sourced, well at least not all of it. Certain parts are proprietary, in particular Daedalus, Oroborus, and elements of the staking code, as well as certain methodologies used in staking. I see no material value in giving it away for free. I Like to think of myself as a speculator if dorts and believe that giving away the Crown Jewels of Cardano is insane, and that value and profit should be gained from them.


#33

You’re free to believe we’re at a tipping point but I respectfully disagree.


#34
  1. Nice cherry picking there. I specifically said some things are better open source and some are not.

  2. I’m aware of private companies creating blockchains. I’m referring to a private company competing in the same space. It can and absolutely will happen. Cardano has no IP because everything is out in the open. Either IOHK starts to patent some IP or someone else will. By then it will be too late. If IOHK does then so much for saying it’s completely open source would you agree?

Firefox and Chromium used to think this way. What browser is #1 now? Exactly. Android you say…which version is used by most manufacturers? Exactly. The private versions of a once open source project.


#35

IOHK patents would benefit IOHK, not Cardano. In fact that would be detrimental to Cardano, by tying it to IOHK.


#36

:rofl: ok, it’s official. we live on different universes


#37

i think this video of balmer laughing at the iphone, grossly under estimating the innovation around incentives (same fundamental innovation of crypto) - illustrates your perspective:


#38

this precisely shows how ill informed your perspective is.

the very first requirement for patenting stipulates that said invention be novel having NEVER been made public.


#39

Amazing to see things like this. We know blockchain has a strong potential to completely change the whole financial landscape and we see these rebuttals everyday. I like them, the more I see the more exciting it is. How does it go… “first they ignore you, then they laugh”…


#40

Yes, it’s really difficult to fully understand the strength of decentralization and open source.

To most, the very idea of strength portrays claws, jaws, and muscle of a perfect predator. Naturally, all assessment of an entity’s strength focuses on its competence as a predator. What kind of predator invites everyone to share its kill?

If that entity does not exhibit predatory instincts then it must be prey; Yep!


#41

Im aware of this. Please show me where the mathematical algorithm for oroborus is public. Please show the site or document. Further, Cardano has not yet been completed. Surely not every development has been made public has it? I’m very well aware of what I’m talking about.

You’re nitpicking at a statement and not the spirit of the statement.

Let me guess, you’re on a Linux desktop, using open source software all of your hardware and chips are manufactured by an open source manufacturer, open source router, repeater, DWDMs, switches, all open source right. I’ll give you android as a freebie but have cases against that as well. You’re the open source super solider advocate right. If you’re not, your money is supporting the very argument I am putting forth. Ah…let me guess…there are no open source alternatives for most of the stuff I mentioned. Hmm…maybe because people that make those things need to get paid, feed their families, pay their mortgages, college funds, taxes.

The reality again is that open source is good for some things, and proprietary software is good for other things. My God man, you have PhDs in this very forum that do not understand the model of funding research then just giving it all away. Who invests in that? Generally, in the university setting, you want to patent these ideas, concepts, and methodologies. I have an idea. You go dig a hole, find the gold, then let me come extract it and sell it.

Money is the driver for this network whether you like it or not. If you say you’re not in it for financial gain in any way you’re a damn lie. That being said, if you’re in it for a dollar, you might as well be in it for a million. There is no difference what you call a person who steals a thousand dollars of yours or one that steals a million, they are still a thief.

Take that thought and apply it to software. You have a talented engineer, that is working on an open source project. I have a similar project. I offer to pay them well, take care of their family, benefits, the whole nine. On the open source project, they contributed their time for free. Most of the time, where do you think the talent will go? They will go to where they get paid. And sure some open source companies have great benefits…but ask yourself. How many products do you have right now that are open source? I bet you have more proprietary products around you then are freely available. Hell, I’m even willing to bet someone in your family has a secret recipe that they dont share. Why not go get that from them and share it with the world so that we can develop it? Give us that great idea that you have and share it with everyone so we can all help to make it better. While youre at it, get Colonel Sanders’ recipe. I’d like to make that at home and all of the recipes online are close but not exact.

There is a clear case why proprietary software, recipes, methods, and the likes are out there. It creates variety, spurs creativity, creates jobs, drives innovation, and the list goes on. In your world, I’ll call it the Star Trek world, sure it would be ideal to have everything being a collaborative effort and no money is needed…but thats not now and wont be for a long time. I mean a really long time. And this whole idea for a crypto and the reason you, I, and even Charles are in it, is because we’re hoping there is a payoff at the end of the road or beginning…however which way you look at it. You dont honestly believe that all of these folks are putting in their efforts to work for free do you? See in your world, they make a nice bundle and the Crown Jewels are out there…In my world, they walk out as mega millionaires for their work, and the early investors make out a little better than the late comers. Now they have enough money to start their own company and further develop the project if they want or they can go fishing, travel, and never work a day again in their life.

So you can go on and position yourself with that give everything away point of view. My position is simple. Keep what’s valuable as a IP, drive up the value of the network and the coins. Decentralization remains in place but there is greater value. Everyone benefits more financially. It’s a. High level view of things, maybe youre not grasping the concept.