Intro to myself + Yoonicoin (climate crisis funding) cryptocurrency

English Introductions
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Hi

I’m Steve and I’m working on developing a revolutionary new cryptocurrency system called Yoonicoin, documented at https://yoonicoin.org/, where every human has the opportunity to have their own unique coin continuously “Minted” on their behalf, for free and until they die. The system uses Proof Of Personal Identity and incorporates mechanisms for raising funds to work on the climate crisis. The current design involves creating a new blockchain from scratch using Proof Of IP Address, which then gets converted into Proof Of Personal Identity as the system matures. It may be better to build the initial system on an existing blockchain like Cardano, and use that as a stepping stone to Proof Of Personal Identity.

I’d be curious to get feedback from people in the Cardano community and any ideas about how Cardano could be used. I’m also currently looking for collaborators and investigating ways of funding the project launch. There’s a 2 page summary and a detailed White Paper at https://yoonicoin.org/. If it’s something you may be interested in collaborating on, then I’d love to hear from you, or if you have any ideas about who else may be interested, please let me know.

Thanks

Steve.

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Hi there and welcome.

Thank you for sharing your idea, though I am a bit skeptical about it. First let me say that I really like the idea of Proof of IP/identity but I am not certain how this would work and what the tradeoffs are. While reading your summary white paper I thought that this project has no necessity besides a fun research project to explore. Below I’ll explain why I think this.

This currency system has been designed to help solve a number of problems. These include inequality, providing a reliable store of value (like Bitcoin but not as unfair or wasteful) and providing access to financial tools to the poor. It also helps encourage people to donate money to the climate crisis, and provides a way for people to vote on a fair way of sharing the burden of funding work on the climate crisis.

These problems are solved by almost any blockchain technology and that last mentioned, about funding solutions to climate change, does not need its own blockchain (just do a crowdfund like the tree planting on cardano.. To legitimize the use of the proof of ip protocol you mention energy use of PoW and say about PoS that

Proof Of Stake has some trust issues relating to how easy it would be to cheat, or overwhelm, the system.

Could you clarify on this? I think that this statement is misleading and false. All protocols have a well defined fault tolerance which determines the trust levels. Both Casper and Ouroborus that are PoS protocols have set boundaries at which they will not fail, and those margins are big. Of course there are protocols that do have these problems but those use bad designs. Its all about declaring the risk.

These Personal Yoonicoins only really become saleable once the identity of the coin has been verified by a trusted authority and linked uniquely to that one person.

This is a central authority that trows away the whole idea of blockchains, that is decentralized consensus that determines truth.

On the topic of Proof of Identity/IP, I think this is a flawed concept since identity is a centralized concept. I have an internet provider that routes me an IP. This can change by their liking, not so good for blockchain tech.

Every human adult on the planet having the ability to Mint their own coins will help alleviate the extreme poverty and hardship that a huge percentage of humans currently endure.

Not true, simple minting tokens does not create a market for it.

The system will also provide a voting mechanism that allows all of humanity to agree on a % of resources that should go to work on the climate crisis and then share the burden of that investment across all of us.

This is a nice idea! Why not build something like a decentralized fund on cardano that does something like this. I sense from your whitepaper that the you have a big heart for the climate, I appreciate that! But I do think that creating a new blockchain for it is a bit of a overkill.

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Hi Fermat,

Thanks a lot for the welcome to the forum :slight_smile: and also for the feedback on the idea. It’s great to discuss it with someone new.

I was checking my email this afternoon and seeing no responses, so feeling a little deflated, until I checked the Gmail Spam folder and found your message (Google’s algorithms obviously don’t understand forum messaging very well!), and so then I was really pleased.

I like your user handle “Fermat” - if you’re a fan of Fermat/maths have you seen this documentary about the story of how his the proof of most famous theorem was discovered. It’s on BBC iPlayer and called “Fermat’s Last Theorem” (can’t include link as my limit is 2 on this forum!)

I appreciate your quick feedback and am glad you really like the idea of Proof Of IP/Identity. You could probably get some answers/clarifications on the questions you raised by reading the main White Paper, but as it’s 43 pages long I’ll give you some quick answers here :slight_smile: (I’ve italicised your points/questions)…

You said:-

These problems are solved by almost any blockchain technology and that last mentioned, about funding solutions to climate change, does not need its own blockchain (just do a crowdfund like the tree planting on cardano.)

The Cardano Forest project sounds like an interesting one, and a good new take on crowdfunding. The climate change fund raising in Yoonicoin is a bit different, in that the person donating to climate change now, through the system, gains a Generator Token which generates them a certain amount of the main Yoonicoin cryptocurrency in the future (I suggest a 5 year delay). The aim here is to have people who donate to the climate (which is an investment for all of our futures) have the possibility of having their investment rewarded in the longer run. This doesn’t happen in a normal crowdfund, because the tokens received aren’t linked to the generation of a main cryptocurrency. Of course, if the main Yoonicoin crypto never becomes a (or the) key global crypto, then their climate donation goes unrewarded - apart from the effect it has on the climate and any social recognition they may get in the future (as it’s recorded on the blockchain).

The hope is that if the main currency takes off, then this will encourage climate donations, which will cause publicity, which will help the currency take off, which will encourage donations etc. etc. This is a positive feedback loop. Similar to the climate positive feedback loops, like melting Arctic → less ice coverage → warmer Arctic seas → more melting Arctic ice etc.etc that are leading to increasingly erratic weather which is affecting our ability to grow crops and is leading to food scarcity and increased food prices (as this CNN article explains).

You said:-

“Proof Of Stake has some trust issues relating to how easy it would be to cheat, or overwhelm, the system.” Could you clarify on this? I think that this statement is misleading and false. All protocols have a well defined fault tolerance which determines the trust levels. Both Casper and Ouroborus that are PoS protocols have set boundaries at which they will not fail, and those margins are big. Of course there are protocols that do have these problems but those use bad designs. Its all about declaring the risk.

I completely see your point about the different fault tolerances and being open about them, and it depending on the protocol that’s being implemented. I must declare I’m not an expert on this and I’m basing this comment on things I’ve read about the different “Proof Of…” protocols. I think I will reword this particular sentence once I have a better understanding of the trust issues with the different systems, since it does make it sound like PoS is less trustworthy than PoW, when in fact it’s not that simple. An example of the issues I have read about PoS can be found at:-

Here is a small extract related to my point (in bold):-

Proof-of-stake, on the other hand, has its own set of difficulties. The network, for example, is still subject to dominance by the most significant token holders. This provides more power to early adopters and people with the most money.
As the concept is still relatively new, it may have drawbacks that are not yet evident to the crypto community. This paradigm, unlike proof-of-work, does not have a track record of performance. Furthermore, forking is not automatically discouraged by proof-of-stake systems. A validator will receive their stake’s duplicate copy on the newly forked blockchain when a blockchain splits
The “nothing at stake” dilemma occurs when a validator signs off on both sides of a fork, allowing them to potentially double-spend their coins and collect double the number of transaction fees as a return.
…
However, there are some doubts about the strength of PoS and PoW security against threats. Therefore, a[ validation mechanism called proof-of-space], or the (Chia project) is created to validate transactions safely. Chia uses a proof-of-space and proof-of-time consensus mechanism to resolve some of the centralization issues that plague PoW and PoS blockchains.

Next, you said:-

(Quoting me) These Personal Yoonicoins only really become saleable once the identity of the coin has been verified by a trusted authority and linked uniquely to that one person.

This is a central authority that throws away the whole idea of blockchains, that is decentralized consensus that determines truth.

I can see your point here, and am still investigating whether use of any type of trusted authority does invalidate the idea of using this as a blockchain or cryptocurrency. I’m still not convinced though, since the recording of value on the blockchain would still be done without the need for any trusted authority. Also, it wouldn’t be one named, or agreed on, trusted authority - it would be whatever trusted authority I trust to verify your identity (and it’s uniqueness on the blockchain) when I purchase some of your Yoonicoin from you. So there could be hundreds or thousands of these, run by any type of organisation. If this can easily be shown to be logically equivalent to me trusting a bank (a “trusted authority”) that you have transferred money to my bank account, then maybe I can see the point. I definitely would like to work this through with someone, and think more deeply about it.

You said:-

On the topic of Proof of Identity/IP, I think this is a flawed concept since identity is a centralized concept. I have an internet provider that routes me an IP. This can change by their liking, not so good for blockchain tech.

The IP point I can see, although the idea here is to use Proof Of IP as a stepping stone to the main Proof Of Identity, so if ISPs start causing issues it should be possible to move on. Also, you’re always going to have an IP address - it just may be that you share it with lots of people (if your ISP changes it so that you do). If that starts happening then I can imagine the system shifting quickly to another Proof method or to Proof Of Personal Identity.

One thing is certain: I definitely don’t have the answers to all these questions - all I have is the initial idea and an interest in working on developing it with other people who see some potential in some of the concepts… I did say at the end of the Summary Paper that the end product will probably look wildly different to what I have proposed :slight_smile:

You said:-

(Quoting me) Every human adult on the planet having the ability to Mint their own coins will help alleviate the extreme poverty and hardship that a huge percentage of humans currently endure.

Not true, simple minting tokens does not create a market for it.

The assumption here is that the currency system becomes the main currency system on the planet. If that happens, then having all the new currency being generated on behalf of each individual on the planet will help those individuals. If it doesn’t become the main currency system, or a main store of value, then it’s fairly obvious it’s not going to help anyone :wink:

You said:-

(Quoting me) The system will also provide a voting mechanism that allows all of humanity to agree on a % of resources that should go to work on the climate crisis and then share the burden of that investment across all of us.

This is a nice idea! Why not build something like a decentralized fund on cardano that does something like this. I sense from your whitepaper that the you have a big heart for the climate, I appreciate that! But I do think that creating a new blockchain for it is a bit of a overkill.

I think a voting system that isn’t linked, and controlling, a main currency system will mainly be ignored. The governments and companies that are running the world are mostly ignoring what a lot of people think at the moment about climate change. A recent survey revealed 56% of youth, globally, think the world is “doomed” (search for it on the BBC) and I don’t see that changing the direction of travel of most of our current systems.

So, in summary: I’m a newbie in the crypto/blockchain scene so I really appreciate your help in getting to understand things better, and point out the flaws/limitations in my thinking. I definitely need to explore further the comparisons of the existing Proof Of… systems with my proposals and also explore further the implications of relying on trusted authorities for proof of identity (but not for avoiding double spending).

If you’re still interested, I’d encourage you to read more of the main White Paper to understand better how the system could evolve - especially the scenarios at the end which take you through an example of how the system could be used by a single individual over a long period (30 years). After that, if you’d like to discuss it further it would be good to have a Zoom chat or something, and if you’d be OK with it maybe I could record it, publish it on YouTube and post a link to it on this thread and from the main White Paper….

Thanks

Steve.

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This is an excellent idea but if I may cut to the chase.

What are you looking for specifically from an existing ecosystem?

If I may be so bold as to conjecture from skimming your white paper it seems to me you are attracted to the charitable giving, addressing of income inequality, and potential of the Cardano community to apply a network effect to your potential layer 2 solution?

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Hi DinoDude,

Thanks for your feedback, and for saying it’s an excellent idea. I’d say it has a lot of flaws + missing bits, but has very good potential, with the input of experts in the field :slight_smile:

In terms of what I’m looking for from an existing community (like Cardano):

  • Ideas and thoughts about whether this system could be jump-started using Cardano, as opposed to building a new blockchain from scratch. Could it be built/launched on Cardano (or another existing blockchain, like Ethereum) and then, if it takes off, move to it’s own blockchain? I’ve heard that this is a model that has worked for other projects (possibly https://crypto.com/ ?)
  • Feedback on the idea from experts in the blockchain/crypto community. If my main aim was to run this as a commercial project and make myself rich, I’d feel guilty about posting on forums like this and asking for feedback. But this project is supposed to be an open source, group effort about working on fixing climate change and global inequality (via creating a single global crypto). A company may be the best way of doing that? I don’t know yet.

Re you conjecture:-

If I may be so bold as to conjecture from skimming your white paper it seems to me you are attracted to the charitable giving, addressing of income inequality, and potential of the Cardano community to apply a network effect to your potential layer 2 solution?

I’m not sure what you mean about network effect - whether you mean publicise the idea (partyly, yup, see above), or you mean Cardano gets used as a technical part of the solution (yup, that’s an option - again, see above).

Curious to know what you mean about layer 2 solution? Is that about Yoonicoin being a second layer crytpo sitting on top of Cardano, which is the layer 1 blockchain underneath it?

Re charitable giving - no, just climate change. Re inequality? - Only aiming to fix in order to stop us killing each other as climate change impacts get a lot worse over the coming (few, not many) years.

I’d love to chat about this on a Zoom or a phone call - as you can see, I’m needing help getting to grips with some of this area :slight_smile:

Steve

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Yes, for example Polygon is a proof of stake smart contract layer 2 for Ethereum. The Lightning Network is a layer 2 for scaling on top of Bitcoin. The term loosely follows network layers and I will attempt to summarize the typical stack below.

Layer 0 = Infrastructure, internet, servers, nodes, stake pools, etc
Layer 1 = Blockchains, consensus, security, Ouroboros, ADA, etc
Layer 2 = Sidechains, scaling, functionality, DeFi protocols, stable coins, etc
Layer 3 = Applications, user interface, projects, DEX, wallets, etc

Some projects can stay within a single layer but larger projects, such as you are proposing, could involve components across many layers as well as bridges for communication up and down the stack.

Let’s say you made your own native token in Cardano and then used it for your layer 2 solution that implements Proof of Identity. Part of this might include a new security protocol that shards data and uses homomorphic encryption. This theoretically could allow pieces of a users identity to be scattered throughout a distributed ledger and verified while never actually decrypting the pieces of information or even having all of the pieces on the same device. Your voting system would also live here along with your distribution of token rewards for climate change initiatives.

You would still need applications for users to register their identity, cast their votes, and participate within your layer 2 solution. Additionally developers could also use this functionality by building other layer 3 implementations on top of your core project while maintaining interoperability if you provide an SDK or API. Then if you are solving a real world problem that people care about it can take on a life of it’s own like ZK roll-ups addressing the gas fee issues on Ethereum …

Your idea might be too big to just be an application on an existing blockchain however it’s not quite big enough to justify starting from the ground up and spending years making a next gen blockchain from scratch. This is exactly where layer 2 solutions thrive :wink:

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Thanks for the breakdowns of the different layers, really useful for me :+1:

I like the sounds of using multiple layers. If there is tech that has been running in the field for years, I wouldn’t want to spend months/years reinventing it.

This sounds like a fascinating proposal, and quite exciting. I’d probably need a verbal walk through to understand it properly. Also would have to try to understand whether some benefits of the system would be lost by having multiple layers - i.e. if you compare a newly built blockchain using Proof Of Personal Identity with one built on multiple layers (including one that uses Proof Of Stake) are you getting the issues associated with PoS when you could avoid them? Not a question I think could be answered in this thread, but definitely one to consider.

I think as this is a project with a big, cross-humanity, team-effort aim - i.e. fund the saving of the planet (by building the main, next crypto which is equally shared across the members of the human species) - I can see that making it easy for developers to build their own parts of the system and for it to “take on a life of it’s own” would be the best strategy here (as opposed to trying to develop it in a single, organised group). Us devs love to feel that we are “super heroes” when we develop - I especially remember having that kind of drive when I was in my 20s (I’m 48 now), so building a new subsystem/add-on to this project would be a dream project for a lots of devs I think.

I agree with this. Maybe it’s a project that can start on an existing blockchain with a roadmap to detach and form it’s own once the money/people are there to do it?

You obviously are really knowledgable in this area. I’m curious to know what part of the idea appeals to you more - the technical aspects and the way it could be implemented, or the idea of piggy-backing climate change funding onto the whole project + the affect that that could have on it’s growth and popularity?

I don’t actually think I’m the best person to make most of the decisions about how to move this project forward, as I have so little experience in this area. I’d like to be involved, but I don’t really consider this idea “my” idea, or “my” project. It’s “an” idea that formed out of all the things I’ve read about blockchain/crypto, and an understanding of how close we are to extinction and how we need to find ways to help us out of this mess. If it’s something that can get people who do have the skills, knowledge and drive to make it happen come together and do it, then that sounds good to me.

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Skimming over this thread i write

Cardano will want to integrate a to-do-distribution system in the layer2-3 lvls you share before. distributing these todos nicely requires what i think you imply: network knowledge of capacities (thus you do personal minting) this stretches a full network shell to a flower on the bush of life at work though, cue full spectrum task management as a dpminant system again
with you orienting t’wards climate management you must have operatives potent to this i mention before 2do distributor (hosting educative gap calculations and fillings aswell in hypothesis)

This 2do hosting really likes device identity; and it economically anchors harshly the digital system for what seems like the first time. You should meld with this system the climate activity priority,

ive notes >~>100 setting bounds aboit this societal system and stuff would hate not to link up with you because ive been solo on this years long, and want to see to it i get to know your climate plans,

ive noted down a refistered company guiding households these days for more integrative practices aswell (climate). Do you see the beautice of this system i mould?

Mapping potential of education onto the 3d guides towards a 100% approach of materialism for my thoigjtsale

I like humans to go withoit integer vue and with esoteric achievement labels, just taking csre of eachone theyre near, computer operatively enhanced for leannchill devicing

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Xcuse the botch you might’ve noticed before its edited

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Hi Julibhouti

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Sounds like you’re really keen on the climate angle and have some technical input about something called a to do distribution system. I’m afraid I couldn’t follow a lot of what your wrote about. Could you please re-edit your post to just include the main points and make them clearer and more concise? Thanks. Steve

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heheheh im off concise here scroll for some compression ive checked my statements aswell /

I cant edit, let me . so:
Managament of physical state of earth (psychee-networking aside:)?) like you aim at (partly) is what i say:, disjunctly there with a ambigue reference, a bush of life, of which climate operations are but a branch; soo, then further clarity-- ::::(emojis dont go in template app’.) I refer to societal management earlier, a way for me to have a go at what i like currently called a 2nd gen social network-, actually focussing on intersocial() values which should be managed on some part of the network. I like harboring some(a lot) of these on value chains, however localizing or distributing compute and monitoring of subsystems of life isnt a singlepointed map, oh yea. So i was referring to your system as a full network-shell around a subset of activity management; inefficient or needing a overarch;

I’ve all kinds of philosophical filters to not make this actiivty management egregious in pertaining-: sharding across devices is majourly task deintensifying inherently and eventual settled minds can manage things without guidance(1need multiD data comms :a), just by reputation)->onchain valueset of particular people s’important. Dogecoin for something is apiece of the pie im sure, Jesuscoin(might even exist, subcoining it under cardano governance) for the return of biblical gravitas. ,)… missing somethings Today to add to your climate offerings, internalizing things currently under mass transport is a key harnessing kilotons of cO2. Besides, importantly: sports memberships and local transport harnessing eachother, job ocation optimizations, ive more, notes…(sometime) Thought you’re getting at an aggregator for this type ideas.
are you?
I’ve been thinking about device integrity aswell. with inert malfice triggers we could lock a system into ordered operating; going outside thread terrritory. but i misremember.

so gonna send this for now, blessu

This *full spectrum task management is one potent actor in a system of necessities cannable in Pc-s, You odnt wanna go foor full scale operations through this type of ; let me deocclude, oddly vague: full spectrum task management is kinda what I see all phases of the societal network needing in the backend, but Todo-listing isnt the shell you wanna carry as mainline in AR, there’s categories to shell into diffuring operative experiences - Remind me you can get some hardcore easy production lining of AR devices with electronic recycling, electronic-seeking-bots and digital prioritized localized education thus upgrading schooling asap then having them on augmented 3d tours to level up, philosophy, the expansion of categories under categorical imperative. - medum Opus detour aside, i also refer to - thus another sphere of influence - an analysis leading to implication of all educative potential in all of physical 3D ,- a guide for the AR tour; a general informative enhancement of life - in factoids (which id like (to) dilute(d) into decontextualized infosphere/node or something able to fit more nicely in the local temporal grammatic. anyhoooo); more potence more potence; - which has many subdivided categories like all, itd certainly coalesce with the enyclopedic backend I envision - hosting recipes 'swell *puffy eyeroll, so.