To those who lost ADA

Most of your points are valid. I would say that crypto has a lot of work to do, but I think we’ll get there eventually… Off the top of my head:

  1. reduce the barrier of entry to attract a more socio-economically diverse user base with a broad range of computer/software tech know how
  2. improve general user experience. The UI isn’t great.
  3. have more human-fault tolerance. “Code is law” has to make concessions for human error i.e. the protocol should be more “idiot-proof”

This reminds of the early era of computers before the introduction of the graphic interface (which Apple and Microsoft essentially stole from Xerox…), and spawned the era of clicking on icons using a mouse which in turn enabled the mass adoption of personal computers because the average user did not have to know very much about the inner workings of a computer.

I’m optimistic these issues and more will be addressed in time. Patience is key.

Only goes to my point. You’ve provided all of these links to radiowaves, 60’s style videos, etc., etc. I don’t think that would make a great sales pitch for adoption to the rest of the world or someone in Africa.

Q: I’m interested in crypto.
A: Well Gramps to be honest, you might not even be around here in 10 years. keep using cash.

Q: I’m not very proficient on the Internet. I always need help and always fall for phishing schemes. What can I do? Who can help me?
A: The internet has been around for years. Adoption is high. What have you done to understand crypto? how many videos have you seen? Podcasts? You’ve barely dipped a pinky Gramps. you’re not a futurist. Go back to playing bridge and using cash. This isn’t for you. You see Gramps, this is dejavu to me. That’s why I can deflect all of your questions. You just need to put all of your savings into this right now. I know I sound like a con-man but just do it. The government is going down. The dollar is going to be useless and the sky is falling whether or not you believe it. If you don’t do it, you’re just closed minded Gramps.

Q: I live in a rural area. How do I connect to get transactions my friend sent me 1000 Ada?
A: Well you’ll need to buy this radio wave transmitter and receiver. It’s only $300.00 USD. You’ll need an outlet or battery supply as well. It’s not waterproof so use it indoors or don’t expose it to wet weather.

Q: I’m using Android and there are many wallets that people create in the Play store. If I download and load my funds to this how can I get my money back?
A: You can’t.

Q: I made a payment through a smart contract and would like to contest the terms of the contract. How do I do that?
A: If a dispute process is not included in the contract, you cannot contest the outcome.

Q: A bug was found in the software and someone exploited it and stole everything I have. How can I get my money back?
A: You can’t. And you can’t sue us because this software is given away free without warranty. You’re basically SOL.

Q: I lost and forgot my seed. My back up is gone because my house burned down and I didn’t put it in a bank safe deposit box because I am one of the many unbanked. How can I get my life savings back?
A: You can’t. We’re sorry. You’re broke and have to start over again.

And in closing, your reply illustrates one of the major problems with crypto as a whole. How is a customer going to feel about using crypto if your argument, description, or explanation is not persuasive? How are they going to feel about using crypto if “You really dont care…” when you are an Ambassador and representative of the coin? You have something vested but its not enough to get you to answer question after question instead of referring a person to a link, you tube video, forum post etc., etc. Customer Service is an industry itself and that service economy is what drives people to a bank to have fees reversed, to reset a password for the 20th time, hearing the occasional customer vent about their product, a check that should have been deposited or cashed, a payment waiting to clear, fees being charged, and the list goes on. The community has some vested interest but most people also have regular jobs and post between them, right? Right.

Face it. Whether you like it or not, we currently live in a service economy. Service matters. I can see th shift away from this as automation moves in, but most people still appreciate human interaction, collaborative problem solving, and lastly good service. Whether thats from a server at dinner, eating tired changed, buying shoes, going to the dentist, or almost anything else, thats what we pay for. Where would all of the “millions” of crypto users go to have service or questions answered? If you say robo call, forum, blog, YouTube, or anything like, for now that will be a failure. People get fed up with being routed through phone dialers, automated responses and the likes. The service experience will be terrible and impact adoption. if word gets out about negative experiences, and it will, no one will adopt. Why do you think Yelp Rating, Rotten Tomatoes (to a degree), Apple’s App Store ratings and all of the other ratings you see around matter so much?

Sure Amazon has an automated store and is developing more…but guess what? They have a return policy. You can get your money back. If someone steals a package from your front door, you can get your money back. That’s why people use it. And for the most part people are honest about it. How are you going to explain to someone who has lost their life savings because there was a keylogger on their computer, ransomware, the forgot their account number/password (i.e., Seed), their seed was lost some other way (house burned down, flood, etc.,) and because of that, there is no way to get their money back. telling them it was their responsibility will drive them to the very service you’re trying to compete against.

People dont store money in mattresses anymore because a bank is a safe haven. They tell you, if your house burns down, dont worry your money is safe with us. If someone steals your card and uses all of your money, dont worry, we will investigate and we have you covered. If you forget your account number, dont worry, your money is safe with us, lets get your identification and then we can provide you with your account number. Lost your ATM card or it was rendered unusable? Don’t worry about it another is on the way in 3 days and its free (not like a new hardware wallet). There was an unauthorized transaction you say? Don’t worry, we’ll dispute it and credit your account.

Banks are successful because people dont want the responsibility to have access to everything they own so that they can lose it all. Maybe there are a few but those people in many instances cant deposit it in a bank anyway. Who might that be? Many a drug kingpin, traffickers, people wanting to send money where sanctions are in place, and the list goes on. I mean seriously, if you want to be responsible for all of your money right now, why not just get cash all the time and not use a bank or any of the services they provide?

People want service. People need service. Not everyone wants the responsibility and risk of having all of their money on a computer or the cloud. Not everyone wants all that risk. People for the most part do not want the assumed risk after they worked so hard to earn the money they have. Confidence in the system, and yes that means Government and Fed, is what makes it successful. Trying to make that fail is like trying to have everyone lose faith in that system and crypto alone isn’t going to do that. There is too much at stake for anyone, especially those at the top, to allow it to fail.

I’m familiar with your style of argumentation.
Let’s reflect on it:
Your point: grandma :older_woman: doesn’t use crypto, grandma uses checks
Conclusion: mass crypto adoption will not happen

My point: grandmas don’t equal mass crypto adoption, some grandmas don’t use internet, internet still a thing. Grandmas are not the future, grandmas don’t make up a huge part of the economy, some grandmas won’t even be around in 10 years. Younger generations are the future, younger generations have no problem adopting crypto.

Conclusion: no correlation between mass crypto adoption and Grandmas.

Your rebuttal:
Grandpa is interested in crypto (so are they interested or are they not interested?), you’re discouraging grandpas by telling them they won’t be around in 10 years and encouraging them to just stick to cash.

Conclusion: somewhow my previous argument is invalid now.

Yeah…like I said before, a bunch of blah blah blah. You write paragraphs on top of paragraphs, but it’s just more of this stuff. Someone successfully counter argues and rather than conceding to a good point you contest it and try to veer it in some weird way thats somehow suppose to redeem yours, but there’s no correlation to the original argument. This type of argumentation is and I use this word seriously…”stupid,” so let’s stop doing that.

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Code is law

I lost my Ada, I was hacked

Sorry code is law.

Can I get get my Ada back?

Nope. Code is law.

My house burned down with my seed.

Sorry code is law

That’s for mortgage and my trust deed

Code is law

I sent my money to the wrong place

Code is law

Put your palm to your face

Because code is law

Now I can’t pay what I owe

Sorry, code is law

There was a flaw in the code

Sorry code is law

Where’s customer support?

Sorry, Code is law

So you’re sayin’ I’m on short?

Yup. Code is law.

That was everything I had.

Sorry. Code is law.

You’re saying I should be glad?

Yup. Code is law.

This is a pretty good response

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On the other hand I don’t even know why im bothering

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It seems to me that losing funds is usually operator error. I’m no expert, but whenever I transfer funds there is always a note telling me to make sure the address is correct! If you cut and paste and somehow you don’t get the entire key pasted, and then hit send, oops, your funds are gone forever!
This is just one way of losing funds, but I’m pretty sure there are many others and folks are just too embarrassed to be truthful about making a mistake!

You copy and paste your addresses? There’s a button next to the addresses that says copy address, you just need to click on it. QR codes are a great alternative as well.

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This actually is a horrible response. It’s articulated well and makes some key points however:

  1. I never stated that Daedalus was not secure;
  2. 2FA is a viable additional level of security. Even if the underlying OS was compromised, requiring a bad actor to intercept 2FA creates additional work to engineer the attack vector;
  3. Storing a seed anywhere in written form compromises a wallet. I don’t think I was arguing that it doesn’t. Did you misread something?
  4. Sure the ecosystem has matured. That’s true. We all are aware of the spreadsheet days I imagine. Beholden to the banks is a different issue. Ask yourself this and apply it to the average everyday person, who typically are stable people. How many people do you think go on vacation taking every cent they have. It’s probably not a lot of people. People don’t want that risk.

Beholden to the banks. Seriously? You’re beholden to more than just a bank if that’s the way you look at things. Do you honestly think that you’re going to be able to not report your crypto to the IRS?

Beholden to the banks. Yea OK. Um…I’m interested in buying this house. Can I get a loan? Well you sure can apply and we’d like to earn your business! Fill out this application and bring your bank statements and FICO. Uh well you see, I don’t have a bank account but I have a lot of crypto. OK well show us your account. Well the account doesn’t really tie to my name, but I can send it to an exchange and then put money in a bank. Well son, how do we know you just didn’t borrow that money from someone else just to qualify? Well just fill this form out because the patriot act required you to disclose all funding sources. So much for that privacy there youngun.

Beholden to the banks…yea I’d like to know why my FICO score is so low. Yea well a new law passed see…and uh FICO looks at checking and savings history…and well you have no money and no transactions. Uh…well that’s because I transact in crypto. OK I see…well if you want to contest that, let’s try and get this straightened out. Give us your crypto transaction history and let’s see if they’ll take this to improve your score.

Want to buy furniture? A car? Credit card? Department store card? Get utilities set up? Comcast? Direct Deposit? Beholden. Yea OK…You go right in ahead and think that. You have more than one system to change.

Only in it for the money then you won’t take the initiative to learn. That’s the biggest load of crap I’ve heard in a long time. People who invest to make money research it more than people who invest to hold. In fact they watch it every morning, every hour, every 15 minutes and when it is part of a job or day trading they look at it every minute and research more angles than you can imagine. Gtfo. Amateur comments like that don’t even rate.

How about this response, you’ve conveniently ignored it. I’m particularly interested in your point of view on the last part.

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Counter? You haven’t even addressed how someone in Africa is going to afford to buy Burst tech. Yea and if it’s syolen, they have to purchase again? If a leather wallet was stolen, guess what, it will cost them 2 bucks USD to buy another and they only lost the cash that was in it. No need for some ultra transmitter James Bond 007 receiver. What happens when they need an update? They have to take a bus to the city to get an update to transmit and receive?

You haven’t provided a single use case that cannot be handled by today’s tech. Sure there are limits to how much you can take out of the US. I’ll give you that. I made a rant about that as well…but that does not negate the fact that today’s tech can address that. You could easily take an ATM card or credit card that has that value or more and has the protections provided by the service provider. What do you think people will pick. A carry everything you own option that is at your own risk or carry amounts relative to what you have or have credit extended to what your score is and have protections against the full amount? Yea think that over.

No response as to updating. How many times has Daedalus undergone an update? Yea my 5 year old wallet has never undergone one update. And it works just as fine as the day I got it. Guess how fast the block times are for that. As soon as I put money in it, it’s available for me to spend. Guess what? When I use cash, it’s virtually untraceable. Transactions aren’t recorded to a public ledger unless I give a card club number or my Email/phone number. I got one better for you. I found my old wallet from when I was a kid. More than 20 years old. Guess what you’re not going to believe this. My cash is backwards compatible with that wallet. GTGO, I know! I didn’t believe that either. You know what else. It has a little coin pocket and the entire thing is MFin waterproof! If I put cash in there it also doesn’t write to a public ledger, none of my transactions from when I was a kid are there. Heck, that one time when old man Richard let me buy a nudie magazine isn’t even on there! And the block time to make funds available is just as fast as my new wallet. The craziest thing is the block times are just as fast if I take money out of that wallet and put it in a German guy’s wallet, a French girls purse, or the Salvation Army charity bucket. It’s freaking compatible with metal buckets and tip jars and it’s not recorded to a ledger either. I can make anonymous donations and no one will know all the better.

You haven’t made the case about forgetting your seed and losing everything. The only thing you can say is it’s your responsibility. Lame. So lets look at this scenario. You have crypto, a lot. You keep your seed to yourself because you don’t entirely trust your wife. You just had a child. You’re driving and unfortunately you get hit by a car and pass. Your wife doesn’t know your seed because you never told her because, you don’t trust your seed to anyone as we are told. Your wife inherits guess what…a Ledger Nano S. Nice. But wait…let’s argue the other point. You do trust her. You give her the seed, you divorce and unbeknownst to you, she shagged you rotten. You’re mad and go Mgtow like you should have in the first place.

You haven’t answered a single point other than point to some idiotic YouTube video about debating and claim to deflect things like you’re weilding Cap’s shield.

What is this about for you? Are you bitter over loosing some money? Are you looking for a support group to reaffirm your beliefs that “crypto suck!”? I’m sorry but you’ll find that on this forum you’re a minority.

…Geez should I be expecting another four paragraph respond that basically says nothing?

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My style of argumentation is facts. And no I didn’t say grandmas don’t use crypto. I was mocking you! I never said mass adoption will not happen. You’re conclusion is flawed and incorrect. I a, saying is that without significant improvements and reassurances, there is no compelling reason for mass adoption when people very frequently:

  1. Forget passwords. If they forget a password imagine forgetting a seed.
  2. You’ll say no one memorizes a seed. I’ll agree. So lets imagine that some people write their passwords down and some people therefore will likely write down their seed. It’s plausible that someone will see it and steal everything that person owns. One careless mistake caused that person to lose everything they had because code is law. How many people do you think want to assume that risk?
  3. Grandmas don’t use the Internet? Really? I know grandmas who not only use the Internet daily, and I’m not talking Facebook. They create apps and they run websites from pet food to flowers. I disagree wholeheartedly.
  4. Grandmas won’t be around in ten years. Wrong! People have been having children at a younger age for the last few years. People live longer. Conclusion. Grandmas will be around for more than ten years.
  5. Grandmas don’t make up a large part of the economy. That is pure ignorance right there. More than 28% of the population is under the age of 18. Assume not every kid in college is working and assume not every kid over the age of 16 is working. Assume further that child slavery in the US is not significant (as a number in this discussion only-its a problem if one kid is in slavery) and that a significant number of minors are not emancipated. That being said,third generations (I,e., grandmas and grandpas) still own a significant number of businesses, travel, have a retirement account, draw from a pension or social security, are contributing members of society and are therefore a significant contributor to the economy. In fact several members of the Cardano team are grandparents.
  6. Younger generations are the future. Sure I can agree to that. But this doesn’t mean at al, that the future will be better. It’s likely but not definitive. Just because younger people are the future doesn’t mean they will automatically turn to crypto. In fact, some studies show that the younger generation is starting to turn away from a reliance on technology. In short, they are trying to unplug. As people get older, they tend to become more conservative. So sure the younger generation is the future but as the future progresses the younger generation becomes the older generation. Your point is?

“Some grandmas,” do you really want to argue this point, that not even “some grandmas” wont be around in ten years? every single argument of yours has these tiny flaws in it open to exploitation

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“Some grandmas,” again do you really think I would write in such general terms? Do you think I did not foresee these silly arguments you’re making now while I was wording my responses. I dont even have to counter a damn thing, the structure of your counterpoints do it for me

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Actually I make money in crypto. I don’t fall I love with any coin. I like BTC, ETH, ADA, BAT, XRP, DASH. I like the fact that Stellar has an IBM relationship. I like the brave browser. I’m really liking BTC. I’m a bit over ETH but you have to admit they have the developer community. XRP I like because of the partnerships being built. Ada well that’s easy. It’s just top notch.

What am I doing? Why does it seem like I’m bashing? It’s not bashing. I’m level setting and keeping a reminder out ther to the developers about real world concerns. Those real world concerns translate into adoption. Adoption translates into an uptick in price. My holdings, your holdings, all early “adopters”.

These are shared concerns.

As far as patenting. Yes I wish there was some for the exact same reason. You give away just enough to keep people interested, feed more along the way, and keep the Crown Jewels to yourself. In this case the foundation. People will say Ada is more than a coin. I’ll agree to that. But when I see Ada, I honestly see money. Money for gas, for the network, for staking to make more money, money for the engineers and team as a reward for their efforts, money for Charles to compensate him for those God awful trips from place to place with little to no sleep. Call it what you will, a network for dapps, whatever. For me it’s money baby!

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What is the structure of my counterpoints Voltaire?

Lol :joy: :rofl::joy::rofl: I’m sorry… this is just such a contrast that I’m taken aback by it. It’s like two different people

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Structure that allows me to defend by simply quoting the original post

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I use the QR. Like I said, I’m no expert. I’m just a guy who found a coin that I believe has tremendous potential. That’s the only reason I’m involved. I have read a lot about crypto and smart contracts and still don’t fully understand it. But when I read about people losing their coins, it just seems to me some errors on their part.

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