What do you think the 2018 USD low will be for ADA?

English Trading
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What are you even saying at this point? If I open an account on your name I can also have access to credit cards, sign up for Netflix and use that account for any nefarious reasons I see fit.

Again (and I can’t believe I have to explain this) the question was whether your bank account or your crypto wallet was safer.

I demonstrated that your wallet is much safer as no one but the holder of pk can access it.

Access to your existing bank account lies in your email, your phone number and guessing your email password.

It’s easier to get those than brute force a pk with 2^160 search space to find a collision.

I am well aware of SHA origins. Did you know that the same tech is used to secure your browser’s connection with your bank?

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BTW while we have been pontificating Ada is down to .035! We might see Mihori’s call of .026 yet this year! Hell might be under!

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That’s not the pint of contention. A crypto wallet may be more safe under certain conditions. A conventional wallet is safer under the following conditions:

  1. If you send funds to the wrong account and need the funds reversed. This is not possible with many cryptos - code is law.

  2. If funds need to be recovered because an account was hacked, a conventional bank provides better assurance that you will be reimbursed.

  3. If suspicious activity occurs in your account, a conventional bank account provides better security as the bank may place funds on hold until you confirm. For some this is a positive others a negative.

Crypto

  1. Provides better security against seizure of funds. You are the holder of your funds.

  2. Portability and associated fees are less.

  3. Funds are provided in terms of. Mathematical proof and nothing else. It cannot be argued that you have possession of funds rather you have proof that a certain set of actions/transactions occurred.

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I’m watching this as well. I think the market is going to seriously crash. This isn’t a data driven prediction but more of a wth is going on. I think it’s a shake down to get people out. Personally I would rather lose what I’ve put in before I took a loss. That’s the way I see it at least. BTC to 1000.

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Yes I am. Been involved with swift for more that 16 years.

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I keep buying the dips. My wife may divorce me soon! If she does she can have the house if I can keep the Ada!

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I just picked up some more right now but I think I should’ve waited. The drop will continue. Still cannot withdraw from binance though. Lame

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Where is the convenience when I can carry an atm card and transfer balances between checking and saving without having to log on

Billions of people don’t have access to banking, for them crypto is convenient.

For someone like me, who does have access to banking, it’s not about convenience. It’s about owning your money and not having to trust banks and governments. Especially here in Australia after they just passed a bail in law that basically allows banks to steal the money you trusted them with if they feel like it.

your math is incorrect

2^160 is about 4 billion to fifth. So factor out 4 billion hashes per second, 4 billion computers, and 4 billion keys. That’s 4 billion squared seconds, or about 584,942,417,355 years. Please tell me how that’s incorrect.

You’re assuming that is to find one relative to any specific wallet. If can occur on the first guess if you’re lucky.

You have no concept of how lucky you’d have to be to guess a key to any existing wallet, not only on the first guess, but even if you guessed billions of times a second for your entire life.

Daedalus does not allow you to select your own words.

Humans are predictable, it would be easier to guess a mnemonic chosen by a person than something randomly generated.

You don’t understand the math that your referencing and still cannot acknowledge the fact that it only takes a mere guess for someone to have full ownership and control of your funds through dumb luck

You really should go read up on how probability works, you’re telling someone they don’t understand math while saying it’s not unlikely to guess a valid wallet in a 160 bit keyspace.

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Ok Steve. We’ve been through this before. How will crypto benefit a person who requires a computer to acces their funds, has low bandwidth, has an old computer that might not support Daedalus, in an area where it may take them hours upon hours to restore. Please do tell us how you plan to solve their problems. The internet started off in developed countries for a reason. Can you figure them out?

I was calling out the fact that humans are predictable. Let me ask you this. How many words in the Daedalus dictionary? Now what if a smart human decided to use a word not in the dictionary. They become very unpredictable. What if the chose a name such as Laquonsha? You gonna find that in the dictionary? The dictionary itself was written by humans, the random script used to create it is also made by man. It’s not truly random it simulates randomness. A person could select a street name, short sentence, or a mixed up word. The standard dictionary is limiting in itself. If I selected a sentence for a word such as “ilikepie” no one would think to have that as a seed word now would they? What about “xoferif”?

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You should read the entire legislation. Instead of spreading FUD. Here you go. Let’s chat after you read as I just finished reading through it. I go to the source and read for myself and not some third party propaganda site.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2018A00010

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Bitcoin is double SHA256. Please explain the dumb luck behind the trophies of LBC.

I’m not referencing the math literally. I’m referencing the equation being used to assume that the time frame to crack is fixed. It does not account for #of wallets, Performance improvements in hardware, leveraging multiple sources capable of calculations far greater than what you’ve noted.

By way of example, many countries have supercomputers. What if each country used multiple supercomputers to crack a hash.

200,000 trillion calculation per second…How would this impact the security model you’ve provided. Let’s say for example if this supercomputer was used to generate random seed combinations to restore a wallet. What does that do to your security stance. Understanding that there are improvements by many factors every other year what’s to stop a government from accessing accounts sooner or later? What happens when a computer of exascale capability becomes reality. Your billion computers over a billion calculations will be done in one second. Then what?

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How will crypto benefit a person who requires a computer to acces their funds, has low bandwidth, has an old computer that might not support Daedalus, in an area where it may take them hours upon hours to restore.

You don’t need a copy of the blockchain to send and receive transactions. Transactions are tiny, they work fine on limited bandwidth. They don’t have to use Daedalus, a light client would work fine.

How many words in the Daedalus dictionary? Now what if a smart human decided to use a word not in the dictionary. They become very unpredictable.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. The words simply represent bits. Each word is 11 bits, 12 words is a 128 bit seed and a 4 bit checksum. Using different words doesn’t change anything. If you wanted a larger seed you would just use more words, there’s no need to use different words.

You should read the entire legislation

I don’t feel like boring myself to sleep. Are you telling me APRA don’t have the power to step in and take peoples money? Even if they don’t, I still prefer to hold my own funds.

Please explain the dumb luck behind the trophies of LBC.

@Donnybaseball already did that:

“A tiny number of funded bitcoin addresses have been purposely made with what’s called “poor entropy,” which means the numbers used as private keys were not very random.”

It does not account for #of wallets

It does, I said 4 billion wallets.

200,000 trillion calculation per second. How would this impact the security model you’ve provided.

Rounding up to 288,230 trillion hashes per second, that’s only 2^58, my example assumed 2^64 hashes per second, so your supercomputer would take even longer than 584,942,417,355 years.

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Let’s not get into light clients. Chrome based extensions have been hacked already. Remember the Mega extension hack?

Each word represents a bit and when represented through SHA produces a different output. That output cannot be reverse engineered but when re-entered produces the same/previous hash, right?

I’m not talking about creating a larger seed.

APRA and any government entity can confiscate everything you have. If it is known that you transacted in BTC or crypto they can monitor you like they did with Ross. They can site you for contempt and lock you up.

You own nothing in this earth, not even your time. There are conditions of your existence with the rest of the world. Consider everything you have as leased.

Please calculate it at one billion billion as this is the max rate for some calculations and the goal by 2020. China has indicated that it will produce an exascale computer.

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Let’s not get into light clients. Chrome based extensions have been hacked already. Remember the Mega extension hack?

It doesn’t have to be a Chrome extension. Any piece of software that can sign and transmit a transaction will work.

Each word represents a bit and when represented through SHA produces a different output. That output cannot be reverse engineered but when re-entered produces the same/previous hash, right?

Right, in the case of Cardano it’s a BLAKE2b-256 hash of the data the mnemonic represents.
Hashes are one way and deterministic, so that’s right, they can’t be reversed and the same input will always produce the same output.

APRA and any government entity can confiscate everything you have. If it is known that you transacted in BTC or crypto they can monitor you like they did with Ross. They can site you for contempt and lock you up.

Even so, I won’t just submit myself to the banking system if I don’t have to.

Please calculate it at one billion billion as this is the max rate

One billion billion is less than 2^60, still less than my example.

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Not a larger seed. Extended beyond 128/32 bits and 4 bit checksum. Values not mapped directly to a known list.

A list based on words entered, words entered hashed, hash to bits plus checksum.

Hope that idea makes more sense.

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Think I misread. You are correct on this point.

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Not a larger seed. Extended beyond 128/32 bits and 4 bit checksum. Values not mapped directly to a known list.
A list based on words entered, words entered hashed, hash to bits plus checksum.
Hope that idea makes more sense.

Sure, but hashing a bunch of words you come up with or hashing a randomly generated seed represented by a mnemonic produce the same result, it’s still just bits of information.
You still just end up with a certain number bits that exist in the same keyspace.

Having a known list isn’t a problem, it’s just a way to represent data.

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Bit size is considerably larger since the values would be based on SHA hash. But yes correct

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The word “safe” in your argument carries a different meaning when applied to conventional banking account than when it is applied to a crypto wallet.

In the case of banking you point to convenience as safety.

In the case of crypto you refer to technical security in your first bullet point, then you mention portability and costs (a convenience feature) then you describe how you think the wallet works.

  1. Transfer reversals are a convenience rather than a safety feature. EOS has them so it’s not entirely impossible in crypto, but requires a significant erosion of
    decentralized security model.

  2. Return of funds in case of a fraud/hack is another convenience feature. This is a pure and simple insurance. If your funds are stolen from a crypto exchange, you get them back through insurance. Otherwise they cannot be stolen if you store your keys on a hardware/paper wallet.

  3. Account monitoring is useless in the case of crypto. Once someone has your pk, it’s game over. There is no need for it.

On crypto side:

  1. Your pk gives you the right to spend the unspent amount of crypto associated with your public key. The ledger gives you the proof of all transactions that have occurred to the date that entitle you to spend the positive balance on your account.
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This is a brilliant point. It is where a lot of people who don’t know how computers work get confused. In essence everything a computer processes and stores is bits (ie numbers). Words, pictures, voice… everything is a sequence of numbers.

What you feed to hash functions is bits, the digest is also bits, even though it’s represented in a hex form to shorten its footprint.

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