What do you think the 2018 USD low will be for ADA?


Does having your atm not allow you to withdraw or spend that which is in your bank?

I wasn’t going point for point but it’s possible to do such.

Why would you bring up EOS? Are you seriously buying that shitcoin? That’s not even worthy of discussion in this forum. You lose points and respect for bringing that messed up governance shitcoin into this topic and forum.

You haven’t invalidated any point. All you did is try to defend yours and not well might I add.


No shite Sherlock. It’s not s matter if not knowing. The approach I am suggesting is no direct mapping and hashing to bits. The issue is extending the bit length more than 128/32 and a 4 bit checksum. I talking about no length hashed and that value converted to bit and with checksum. There is a valid point that it will be 11 bits long if you follow BIP39. I’m suggesting this to be extended beyond that with indeterminate grouping so that 132 checksummed non-entropic user selected values are divided into non-standard chunks other than 11 bit chunks used in BTC. That would extend the 11 big integer range value beyond 2048 directly. There is no reason to shorten the footprint because there is no footprint, the values are undeterministic and since the length of the chunky is based on the submitted word which was hashed, chunk lengths differ and follow no pattern.


You have limits set by your bank. It’s not my responsibility to educate you about how banks work, yet here we are…

Because it’s a coin that exists in the space with features you think are impossible and beyond your attitude toward it. I don’t believe in it as it trades security for convenience. You may just as well hold your cash in your bank.

Do you not see inconsistencies in your arguments?

You can’t argue intelligently with someone who changes the subject of the argument every time you point to their false logic.


Sure. Why don’t you take your ideas to btc developers and see what they think?

You lost me at your “dumb luck” statement.


This one is a gem…

The deterministic feature of a hash function is what makes it important.

If the output of your hash function is different every time you give it the same message (ie it’s undeterministic), how in the hell do you expect the blockchain to work?

You do know why blockchain technology uses deterministic hash functions, right? Right?

As @Steve pointed out the search space remains unchanged even though you have a list of words of determined length as long as the process of their selection is random and you use a secure hash function.


You may have been fooled by that website. Forget the “puzzle” transaction, those don’t count. That leaves 3 “finds”. But how do you know they found these, rather than made them?

Isn’t it BLAKE2b-224?

Indeed. People sometimes think the words are used to make the seed - no - the words are just a convenient human readable representation of the seed. The words used are irrelevant. You can have the same seed represented in different language words, such as Korean, or Japanese.


Isn’t it BLAKE2b-224?

BLAKE2b-256 is used to produce the seed for the root private key, 224 is used to produce the abstract hash for an address (which is the hash of the address type, public key, and attributes).


wow…much has been said gentlemen and ladies, since my last post on this topic.
However, if i may briefly draw your attention away for a sec, and focus on the winner :slight_smile:
lets all give a hand to @Mihori :clap:
Congratulations! Sadly for me and im thinking many of us on here, you were spot on than the rest of us. Well done!


Now the question just becomes: how low will we go? Be it in 2018, 2019, etc.


Must be the case for you. Sorry about you low FICO. I can spend with no limit. Everything I have I can use. Maybe you should use cash.


There are 1000’s if coins. Bringing up some shitcoin with horrible governance, a horrible mainnwt launch, CPU issues as if today, a leader who wanted to change the constitution weeks after the mainnet launch. Yea great example. There are several coins that can reverse transactions. Everyone knows that.


Listen… You seem like a low-level troll. I don’t have time to address your useless comments. This is my last response.


We are all going to relax and take some chill pills okay? @Michael94588, nothing wrong with criticism but keep it on topic, the usd low for 2018.

One post got flagged, because someone felt this thread is becoming a bit hostile between participants. Maybe let it rest for a bit, create a new topic, or discuss this topic through private messages. :slight_smile:


Yea low will be below .02 if this is truly tied to btc. Based on reading and chatting this morning seems like some huge margin calls came in, a whale had to sell some btc which then triggered other stop losses and we have the waterfall effect. Confirmed frequency of trades and there were a number of stop losses and hsb trading in the same range. One off trades came in a bit later seems like ppl caught off guard. Might be a good buying opportunity for me.


That actually sounds good.


I’m glad there is at least one thing to agree on in this thread. Only good discussions have a tendency to become a bit more personal and loaded, this was one of those times :slight_smile:

Questions for you as you are clearly an avid trader.

a) Where is the 0,2 originating from, is this from a technical analysis perspective? (Just curious)

b) Would you consider Cardano to be undervalued at 0,2, if you would have certainty that Cardano could offer the same ease of use as banking cards in 2020?


I’ll be very honest with you on this. I have made a mistake with Ada in the sens that I have only sold once whereas I should have bought and sold as I do with other coins. With Ada, there is this FOMO. For me this is because of the following:

  1. Ada is early in the game;
  2. Charles is in the U.S. - Despite what anyone says he is subject to U.S. laws. SinceI am in the U.S. this adds an element of security. I prefer to not deal in crypto based in countries where the laws are not familiar to me. Now ppl will say Ada/Cardano is based in Switzerland, and they would be correct but here’s the thing. If this was a scam, I really doubt that Charles would hang out in the U.S., go home to Colorado (if thats where he lives), visit his family here, etc.
  3. There are a good amount of credible people working on this project, etc. etc. I doubt they would risk ruining their reputations on a scam and they should be wise enough to know if they are. My assumption is that they have skin in the game and a good enough amount of coins to make it interesting.

For these and other reasons, I buy the dips, even right now and will likely again. The thing is, being tied to BTC means looking at BTC because the weight there will impact Ada. I suspect that the value will fall below .02 for a number of reasons.

  1. This morning in a discussion, I was told of a large/whale sell of which triggered a BTC sell off which then triggered some stop losses. I was looking at trades from high speed bots, retail, and then glanced at the RSI, trends, news on the wire and general data.

  2. My old model didn’t account for something like this although this could be considered a significant event; I dont consider whale trade as significant unless driven by an action that is applicable to all. Maybe that’s a flaw. I’d have to look through this to see if it warrants a change.

  3. There is a lot of talk about AG’s BTC and ETH are the only exceptions. I’m hoping the same decision will be given to Cardano/Ada.

  4. Talking to retail investors and people in general, its hard to find the use case where “normal people” - the general public will use this.Try this yourself. Ask friends and family if they would use it. Give them the upside and downside - dont hold back, let them know about the consequences of being hacked, forgetting a seed, etc. Give them the upside as well - if the govt collapses, you’ll have all your money, etc. Explain volatility between the dollar and crypto. Then honestly ask yourself if you think there is a use case. For Ripple/XRP, I see it. For EOS, sure maybe even though I hate that coin. I dumped all of my EOS soon after the mainnet launch.

So these things considered and some others, RSI, Xmas, sell off, etc., I’d have to say that a general view is negative and I would expect slippage. I see the upside on the mainnet/Shelley release and Coinbase. I’d really like to see a Coinbase bump and then I might consider selling then buying back in. The thing is if it takes off, then I’d be in at a higher price. I’d have to see what my gains are to justify selling and coming back in.

I think we should see some people with skin in the game either sell off or sold off already. The same applies to early buyers.

I think the bottom might be around .04-.01 but I’m still trying to fix this model for the things it didnt catch.

Upside: If Cardano is decided to not be a security, and listed to Coinbase, I think it’s easily 1.00 USD.

This is not financial advice. I am not a financial advisor. Any trading in Cryptocurrencies is an extremely risky investment likely to result in the loss of all or part of your money. Anyone buying or selling cryptocurrencies should consult their financial advisor for advice on anticipating in the cryptocurrency market.


Interesting, Charles has casually mentioned that IOHK is moving to Wyoming, he stated this during the Malta blockchain summit last week.

I get confused sometimes about the jurisdiction Cardano is operating under, my assumption is that IOHK is responsible for creating their product (as well as) being a security or not. and the move to US soil could mean that regulators investigate whether Cardano is a security before they are allowed to set-up shop?

If i understood correctly, the Foundation owns the Cardano trademark, i doubt that this puts cardano (the actual blockchain and product) under swiss jurisdiction.

I do not have an MBA, so my assumptions are fickle and unproven at best :slight_smile:

So, if i understand correctly, whales selling for tax write-offs could be considered as an action applicable to all whales based in the US?

Most people i have told think crypto is a money making/losing machine. What i think a lot of people forget is that greed is baked into the concept of crypto, completely engrained in the culture surrounding it, combined with the gambling factor aka dopamine hits you get when making a trade and (from my perspective) this will keep the whole space afloat untill the tech can support the use-cases.

We know there will be no shortage of greed anytime soon, so i’m not worried about use-cases, for now this is the biggest use-case for a very large chunk of crypto investors.

At some point, institutional money will come (especially at these prices). I refuse to believe the real whales (George Soros for example) have this amount of interest in this space to destroy it, they will do what they have always done, control the markets and increase their wealth and influence.

PS: i strayed way off-topic as well, sorry guys. Hard to keep the topic on the low for 2018. Totally see how this thread got derailed now :smile:


The usual disclaimer. Anything I post is not financial advice. I am not a financial advisor. Anyone investing kin the crypto markets should consult a financial advisor. Speculators should conduct their own research for their investment strategy. I am not providing any invest strategy, guidance, or financial advice.

I was reading this article this morning.

This made me think of myself relative to Cardano. I’ve only sold off twice just to buy back in at a lower price with the same amount or more despite fundamentals showing that the price will draw back in line with the rest of the market and against BTC. Yet, I still buy more because of FOMO and this underlying belief that they guys and gals at IOHK/Emurgo are on to something. That despite all of the comments one might perceive to be negative that I post. I say this in the middle of another restore - Cannot Connect to Network errors seem to be my best friend and no I will not change to Yoroi or any browser based wallet. I actually was better off with keeping my Ada on the exchanges I use.

Anyhow not to deviate too far. It wouldn’t matter if IOHK was in Hong Kong or the US, relative to jurisdiction for some crimes (example, Fraud) the fact that the person is in the U.S. provides a slight bit of reassurance to a degree…Think Enron. I am curious as to whether or not Ada/Cardano is considered a security. Seems like Charlesis meticulous about compliance and active in making sure a Securities label is not the goal but if so, then they are in compliance…thats the way I read into things but if I’m wrong, let me know. That being said, I read this other interesting read.


I wonder how this will play out with Ada.

As far as the trademark, its nice that they were able to get this hammered out and Parsons is out. 2 years wasted. Hopefully a structure can be put in place that will inspire investor confidence and someone will be put at the helm that can get us to the forefront.

Use case is the hard one for me. From a financial perspective, its hard to imagine selling this product to clients if:

  1. I myself experience having to reinstall the wallet because of network connections;
  2. I experience issues which impact the ability to trade immediately from a personal wallet or through an exchange. Calling in and initiating a trade is not freely available as a service.

These are basic fundamental requirements when executing trade on behalf of a person or yourself. Seconds could mean the difference between making a few dollars or losing a lot.

The other issue that is brought up in my discussions is upgrades. From a client/end user perspective, I’ve been told, “The only reason why I need to upgrade my wallet now is because it’s old, my wife doesn’t like it, I received one as a gift, etc.” The idea of having to continuously upgrade isn’t sitting well with folks I have talked with. I think this will somehow impact adoption.

The other issue that comes up is “Open Source”. Everyone touts this and its great that everyone can seethe code. Here’s the thing though, many if not most people I have spoken with do not code, nor do they understand it, want to understand it, have the time to read/learn it. This includes some millennials. With that, there is a “trust” that they have to extend to someone they cannot see. The same might apply to a bank and the software a bank uses, but they have a name, faces, and people they can talk to if there is an issue with their money. When asked who thy would go to if there was an issue with their wallet, the thought of going to a forum, email, etc., doesn’t hold well. The trust cant be built this way as fast nor is it as strong based on feedback. People would not trust their life savings to this especially when they keep hearing about hacking in general. To summarize the thought, I was told this. “The last time I heard or saw a vault being robbed was on Ocean’s 11 and Fast and the Furious”. Bank robbing of this sort doesnt occur anymore where you lose everything. If you’re telling me that I can put everything I’ve saved into this wallet and have access to it anytime but one day I might lose it all because of a mistake I made, then I dont want that responsibility. I’d rather leave it in the bank.

As for price, I see that we are now #10 on Coinbase. I suspect this isn’t over though. We’ll drop out of the top 10 and then be back in it once Shelley is out I imagine. SV seems to be in play now. Once ABC is up, we’re out I bet. I wonder if this will cause a sell off.

BTC to high 2k’s and then 1k? Pick up Ada at bargain prices and then wait for years for this to boom or bust. I think its fair to say that we will reach .02 and then we can all get in like the early buyers.

What say you?


My thinking is the market may bounce up this week or in Early Jan. If not probably tough sledding for a while until we see some real use cases. My case for a market bounce this week is purely based on contrarian investment strategy as in when everyone says sell start to buy.

As far as use cases go could be gambling or gaming, or stuff in Asia or Africa around property rights, identity, or commodities. The Marlow programing language is also very interesting as it makes programing smart contracts much simpler for non programing financial people (lawyers, accountants). At some point hopefully soon I think the development work for decentralization and smart contracts will pick up steam very quickly. All this backend work will start to pay off…Hard to see that at the moment.

Another possibility is that people who are interested in crypto pull money out of less worthy projects to out into better projects. Hopefully Cardano is one of the favored brands.

Obviously I’m throwing darts like everyone else though…